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Replies: 24 / Views: 10,289 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1359 Posts |
I figured Id let you guys see the coin that will up for auction on Heritage the first week of December. Soon as I get the details Ill pass it on.. This is my most favorite coin! 
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Valued Member
United States
109 Posts |
Is that considered an overdate or an error of some sort? Nice coin
Mike
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
12437 Posts |
A coin like that is commonly referred to as an "overdate" but it is technically a doubled die with the die being created using two hubs of differing years. True overdates involve hand punching the year into the die, which was 18th and 19th century minting technology. Look at the Bust half dollar series and you will see many overdates.
Edited by biokemist6 09/24/2008 1:16 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3507 Posts |
Two comments, That coin was cleaned as evidenced by the hairline scratches if you look closely. Therefore it is not as nice as it would appear.
Then, there is no such thing as an overdate on modern series of coins.
These are Class III doubled dies. It is called Design Hub Doubling
A working die receives impressions from two different yet complete working hubs, each hub having a different design. It is not a 2 over 1 or 42/41 etc.
Two different hubs were used to make the die.
Thanks, Bill
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Valued Member
United States
109 Posts |
Thank you for the explanation, the process is clear now.  Mike
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
1359 Posts |
There really isn't any "scratches" on this coin. It was enhanced a lot on PS to brighten the pic up. Ill post another one maybe you can see what I'm talking about. When you highlight everything u will see any mark on a coin. I don't think it was cleaned ,it looks more like any natural wear from any cloth,cotton gloves, etc. 
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5318 Posts |
Just in case it applies here, I'll add that many digicams pick out minute surface details over luster. The effect is often a "whizzed" look on silver coins, when it's far less evident in hand. That said, I trust Bill's eye if he saw something. Sometimes I'll only spot whizzing if I compare the junction of the devices to the field at several lighting angles. There is often a gap in the sheen around lettering and portraits on a cleaned silver coin. Of course, the coin in hand is worth 1000 photos.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4541 Posts |
Bill I am siting here marveling over the coin as I have one that dont look that nice!I am glad we have people here that can spot cleaning like that thanks
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Pillar of the Community
United States
6381 Posts |
Here's an enlargement from a photo of a recent example sold on Heritage. This one is graded MS-64 by PCGS. Is it just me, or does the date on Kloccwork's look a bit "off"? Compared to the PCGS example, the 1 seems to extend further down below the base of the 2, the bottom of the 4 is not as sharply notched, and the 4 seems too close to the 9.  There are fakes known for this date; does this one look OK to our other forum members? 
Edited by Jaobler 09/24/2008 01:41 am
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
1359 Posts |
lol..Ill give you the listing as soon as its done
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4541 Posts |
Mine looks more like your jaobler
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Valued Member
United States
63 Posts |
Like FIR said it has been cleaned but sill a keeper! 
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7629 Posts |
I believe the coin photographed in the original post of this thread is an alteration. Whomever created the alteration seemed to have forgotten that on the genuine coins there is distinct doubling on the 4 of the date on a genuine coin, which the coin in the first post of this thread does not have.
I have taken the liberty of copying both images into my computer and running a point-to-point match overlay and the position of the digits of the date match as they should for size and shape, and the doubling of the 1 of the date matches for size and shape. The four digit, however, is completely wrong. It is 'normal' whereas it should be strongly doubled.
A far closer shot of the date area only of the coin in question would help to support or eliminate this claim.
I currently have no method of uploading my overlay, but I can assure you the 4 digit is different from that on the PCGS holdered example.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3507 Posts |
Chuck,
GREAT EYE! The coin at the top of the thread is a fake.
On a genuine coin, the 2 appears on top of the 1.
On this fake, the 1 rides on top of the 2.
It has also been cleaned as I said before and the second attempt to show pictures of the coin shows a fingerprint.
In any case the moral of the story is I also have to look more closely at some of these pictures when they turn up. My Red Flags went up but I didn't figure why until Chuck pointed out what he saw.
Nice Job, Chuck!
Bill
Edited by foundinrolls 09/24/2008 3:08 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
891 Posts |
Take a look at the reverse. I used your image and pointed out an area where there should be a die line. It should be just above where the olive branch meets the fasces. Can't really tell for sure if there is one there or not, but it doesn't look like it. All 1941/2 coins have this die line. If it isn't there it isn't genuine. 
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3507 Posts |
Hi All,
I had some other major authenticators look at the pictures of this coin. It is without question a fabrication of some kind. I feel bad for Kloccwork419. If he purchased this coin with a plan to sell it, he is going to be told by any major auction house that it is indeed a fake.
Bill
Edited by foundinrolls 09/25/2008 12:50 pm
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Replies: 24 / Views: 10,289 |