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Pillar of the Community
United States
1984 Posts |
I agree with 64, but it would be great to see it go higher! Very nice!
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Pillar of the Community
United States
666 Posts |
So it the question what would we grade it or what do we think NGC will grade it?
The reverse is beautiful.
The obverse is also beautiful, but not quite as much. I'd really like to have this one in hand to grade the front.
I'm going to hope that what I'm seeing as a slight rub on the back of his jacket and into his hair is due to a weak die.
Although I'm really really tempted to grade this as AU58, I'm going to go out on a limb and say that even if it is AU the quality of the reverse can convince me that it's a weak die and as such give it an MS grade
The one scratch above the date is very noticeable, the other marks along Lincolns body are there... I don't know if I would have noticed them if the other mark was there... I would have just thought that the fields were great so the rest of the coin must be in the same shape.
If I am going to call this MS, then the rub on the front has to be a weak strike... weak strikes limit the upper end to 63 (from the way I understand it)...
So all this put together in my head rumbles around and comes out
MS-62 Red
That's what I grade it for you...
If it were in a dealers shop I'd do everything in my power to convince them that it was an AU, as that's about a $400 difference. Then I'd bring it home put it in my album and sniker to myself that I was able to pay AU prices for what's obviously a MS coin.
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Bedrock of the Community
 United States
19964 Posts |
Spring - You have to realize that the 1922D series was the absolute worst in quality for Lincolns. The Denver mint way, way over-used their dies and very little care was taken in the production of cents. This is 100% sure an MS coin. A good place to compare is to browse the 1922D's on ha.com.  My only concern is the colorful reverse. With the TGP's cracking down of late on "questionable color", most are paranoid about certifying anything colorful. This coin is very colorful as certain angles on the reverse. I guess I'll just have to wait and see. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1984 Posts |
While I'm sure they'll consider AT, I rarely see AT on the reverse of a coin only as an issue. Maybe others have seen this before?
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Pillar of the Community
United States
666 Posts |
So can a weak struck coin receive a grade higher than 63? If my understanding of that is off then my final grade on the coin would be off as well.
As I said before the reverse is stunning. I'm sure in some way shape or manner it could be better and I really struggle with grading MS coins, but to me the reverse is at least a 65.
Going off of a weak strike for the obverse I can't give it a 65 due to the scratch above the date and the hits in his coat.
So my thinking on calling it a 62 was "If it can't grade higher than a 63 due to being a weak strike, something also has to be taken into account for the hits on the front... so 62".
But if you can have a weakly struck coin grade above a 63, then I'm also under going under the assumption that grades above 64 can't have any hit's in the fields... if it's got hits but they aren't in the fields than from the way I understand it it can grade up to 65.
The question for me is how do you grade the obverse and how does die strike limit grade AND how do hits affect grade... I know if there are multiple hits then it can't grade above 63... but I only see the one main one in this...
Long story short my whole understanding of how to grade MS coins is REALLY shaky.
I don't know what to grade the obverse... I could be convinced to go from my original of 62 up to 65 depending on what the actual rule set it.
I do know that the reverse is stunning and should grade at least 65...
SO combining those two together, I could see understand any grade between 62 and 67...
Like I said I have no idea, and need a better understanding of how to grade MS coins.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7123 Posts |
Quote:
So can a weak struck coin receive a grade higher than 63? If my understanding of that is off then my final grade on the coin would be off as well. On this particular date die state will be taken into account in the grading ,this coin is definitely mint state and in the scheme of these coins is pretty well struck , the reverse is very strong and neat and the obverse showing the amount of detail in the beard and jacket are indicators of a MDS to LMDS obverse on this coin . the obverse has a few bag marks /dings 7 that I can count in the pic under the particular lighting ,rims are clean the small spot in the left field is a bit distracting and the larger scratch in the right field also but I think everything considered that the coin will come back 64 RB from NGC if it was sent to PCGS it would be a 63 RB . Thad I would not be to concered about the drawer toning on the reverse it looks natural to me and is a part of the coin and should not affect the grade . Very nice coin for this date ! I'll trade ya two Medium peeries and a blue boulder and 10 cats eyes and a steelie for it |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
19964 Posts |
Well, well.....NGC is ridiculous. My dealer agrees with me, my 22D is completely natural and he was very surprized and disgruntled with NGC. He showed me about 15 other slabs he rec'd back on this shipment, all were very harshly graded and a very nicely toned silver 3-cent came back "stained". This whole AT kick the TGP's are on is out of hand!  After discussion with him, I am going to submit my 22D to PCGS. He feels certain they will slab it. He wanted to use NGC because he thought it'd have a good shot at MS65, where PCGS will likely be 63-64. This story is not over dangit!  |
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Rest in Peace
United States
5375 Posts |
Well, I wasted 50 bucks and 14 weeks with NGC, so I feel your pain.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
632 Posts |
Bummer...Sorry Bad. It is a beaut!.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7123 Posts |
Now thats just sad !  they took your money and did not grade the coin ,I would send it back for a presidential review and a complaint like they have never seen before ! or I would if I placed any stock in what they thought ! |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
19964 Posts |
You can protest their opinion? Really?
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7123 Posts |
Thad I don't know if NGC has an actual process for protest , I know that PCGS does or did have a presidential review process . but don't let that stop you it would not stop me from protesting what I know to be a falicous grading and unfair and false holdering of my coin . I firmly believe that if I pay money for something I have the right to protest the results if they are not up to snuff or at the very least an explaination for the results which I got . The grader which graded your coin may not have been completely qualified to do Lincolns and especially lincolns with toning and you should have your coin looked at again with a letter of protest included with your opinion attached to it . and thats the truth !  from their own FAQ page Frequently Asked Questions How widely do grading opinions vary among experts? A. Discrepancies in grading of 1-2 points in MS60 and PF60 and better coins are not uncommon. In circulated grades a variance of 1-2 grades (i.e. VF35, XF40, XF45) also would not be uncommon. Discrepancies depend largely on how well trained the examining experts are in the area that pertains to a particular coin. |
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Rest in Peace
United States
5375 Posts |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1267 Posts |
Well, well.....NGC is ridiculous. My dealer agrees with me, my 22D is completely natural and he was very surprised and disgruntled with NGC. He showed me about 15 other slabs he rec'd back on this shipment, all were very harshly graded and a very nicely toned silver 3-cent came back "stained". This whole AT kick the TGP's are on is out of hand!
Tough to tell without the coin in hand, but from what I can see it looks fine. This 'kick' the TPG's are on has been going on for years now. The gentleman who ran the local coin shop purchased 3 sealed bags of Morgans about 7 years ago (2 80-s and an 85-o) for $54k ($18 a coin) if I remember correctly! Anyways, he ended up with about 300 nicely toned coins (a few very,very nice ones, but no monsters) that he sent off to pcgs. About 240 of them slabbed, the rest were returned for questionable color! I mean, they all came out of the same 3 bags.  Anyways, he kind of shrugged his shoulders and said that's the game. He sent the rest back to pcgs a second time, and half of those holdered. Incidentally, the common thread between the rejects is they were darker or had a lot of black (some really looked more like end-rollers than bag toned, but that was from the strings fraying off the seams inside the bag and resting against the coins - cool, huh?). Those 2 time 'rejects' were all shipped off to ngc where they were holdered the first try (their third). Those were all very real, nt coins that were submitted together, from a very well respected dealer...............and it took some of them 3 tries to make it. If the grade don't fit, you must resubmit! A couple of years ago, a certain coin doc found that if he used ms70 on copper coins they toned in wild blues and purples. Fooled the services at first, but as always when they figured it out they stopped grading pretty much anything that looks like them, natural or not. 
Edited by hadleydog
10/22/2008 02:20 am
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
10982 Posts |
I know color is an opinion that's hard to argue - It sure looks natural to me.
Is the nick on Lincoln's forehead very bad? It's a key and I bet PCGS goes MS63 unless the dreaded color issue or that nick cause a problem.
Good Luck!
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Replies: 22 / Views: 3,371 |
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Posted 10/09/2008 9:37 pm
