| Author |
 Replies: 19 / Views: 3,594 |
Page 2 of 2
|
|
|
|
Pillar of the Community
Canada
5253 Posts |
According to the ebay blurb, they pay the cost of authentication. I can't imagine that this would be useful for coins unless they are high enough value to cover the expert's time and one more shipping cost. ebay is not going to pay authentication costs for a $25 Morgan dollar. Realistically, they may as well be slabbed if this is the case. If you only get valuable coins that are slabbed, as so many are, it would hardly matter. |
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
4680 Posts |
Can't say I'm a fan. How " professional" are these authenticators and how many counterfeits, fakes, etc. will slip through the cracks. And when they do, who's side will ebay be taking in case of a return? More likely to side with the seller since it was " professionally authenticated" and now it's your word against the seller AND ebay. Edited by Ty2020b
09/08/2020 5:46 pm
|
|
Pillar of the Community
Canada
3733 Posts |
if the item is deemed fake, the seller doesn't get it back either.?
All seller's have to agree to pay shipping to the authentication's place of business...
Wow, should put the fakers out of business in about 20 years..
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
5362 Posts |
I read with interest the announcement of the new ebay policy for authentication of certain items sold on ebay. I am unaware of whether or not it applies to coins, but I certainly hope not. Like it or not there are LEGAL to own Counterfeit coins. That is a fact beyond dispute. Many of these non-genuine coins are very valuable. These contemporaneous issues are NOT a threat to Numismatics, they are part of history. Quote:The problem with the policy is summed up in this statement: You acknowledge and agree that if the third party authenticator detects fraud or suspects that an item is counterfeit, the item will be confiscated and not recirculated in the marketplace - neither buyer or seller will receive the item; in addition, ebay will work with the proper authorities as needed. Notice the wording - if they suspect an item is counterfeit it will be confiscated. Imagine that. They could steal a legal to own collectible counterfeit worth hundreds or thousands. Where is the recourse? Just today I saw on ebay a contemporary counterfeit coin posted by an unsuspecting dealer willing to "Guarantee Authenticity". That dealer might use the new Policy and that coin ends up where? Who keeps it? We should all protest to ebay and ask that coins be EXEMPT. |
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
5362 Posts |
This is a VERY bad policy. Quote:You acknowledge and agree that if the third party authenticator detects fraud or suspects that an item is counterfeit, the item will be confiscated and not recirculated in the marketplace - neither buyer or seller will receive the item; in addition, ebay will work with the proper authorities as needed. Who confiscates a suspected counterfeit? Where does the coin go? What about people who collect counterfeit coins? There must be an exception made for coins that are legal to own - demonetized etc. There are thousands of collectors like myself that could lose coins and money involved. Confiscate Numismatic Frauds but not Contemporaneous Circulating Counterfeit coins. |
|
Bedrock of the Community
United States
10047 Posts |
Quote:Another E bay placebo . Would not take a rocket scientist to fix the coins category on ebay . Some ideas include 1 Seller must be a member of a prominent numismatic organization ie ANA2 only allowed to sell certified coins until you reach a decent feed back rating 3 14 day minimum return privileges . While the proposed plan would likely work, I definitely am not a fan of points 1 and 2! We have to remember that slabbed coins are only one way people like to collect cons. I have been collecting since 1968 and the very first slabbed coin I got was after I joined CCF in 2011. Until the companies emply a verifiable and consistent grading system/product, I do not care to patronize them. The one exception would be to play their game when selling an expensive coin so as to enlarge the potential market of collectors who would be otherwise uninterested b/c they don't collect raw coins. Point 1 means legit sellers who do not care for slabs, but desire to sell on ebay, have to pay ANACs money b/c some irresponsible buyers are not concerned enough about their own money to educate themselves?!  Point 1 means buyer's taking responsibility for their own actions/money goes out the window at the expense of some legit sellers. Non-slab-collecting sellers would pay ebay fees, Paypal fees, and now an ANACs membership fee as well? Non-slab-collecting sellers also would be forced to deal with slabbed coins until a certain verification level was reached. The slabbing companies would love this fix! Do I have a better solution? Nope.  I HATE ebay fraud. I HATE people are taken advantage of. But I also HATE the idea of making some legit coin sellers have to pay more money to use the same service. How much squash could a Sasquatch squash if a Sasquatch would squash squash? Download and read: Grading the graders Costly TPG ineptitude and No FG Kennedy halveshttps://ln5.sync.com/dl/7ca91bdd0/w...i3b-rbj9fir2 |
|
Bedrock of the Community
United States
17884 Posts |
Quote:
By selling raw items that are even more likely to be crap?
Can't sell raw items until he gets the good feedback level Quote:
if the item is deemed fake, the seller doesn't get it back either.? According to the FAQ, if the seller ships a fake it gets returned to him. If the buyer decides to return a purchase and then it is determined to be fake it gets confiscated. |
|
Valued Member
404 Posts |
@swamperbob, they already contract out to thieves through their global shipping initiative, why not here as well!?!
To clarify the above, the company they use tends to make use of the very worst available courier, who then inevitably never is able to deliver the item (as they never really try, just leave calling cards), before moving the item to a distribution center wwwaaaayyyy out of the city. When people who work full time are then not able to go in a 'timely' 72 hour weekdays between 10-16 only manner, the company takes possession of the 'abandoned' goods and auctions them for their further profit.
Another way that they effectively thieve from buyers outside of the USA is by pre-preemptively collecting 'import duty' at some absurd rate (here in Poland, nearly 2x what I would gladly pay the government... when I was in the UK, I think it was around 1.5x), and then do not pay that on to the relevant authority, meaning that the buyer then has to pay the actual duty.
I have, across 3 countries, tried buying things through the global shipping program 3 or 4 times, and every time, it goes as above. I simply avoid sellers who use it now.
This is all to say, this 'authentication program' will only end up being another poorly executed, unscrupulous money grab, of this, I am certain. I mean, as per above, there is a precedent...
|
|
Bedrock of the Community
United States
20753 Posts |
Just one more reason I never buy anything from ebay. |
|
Moderator
 United States
189767 Posts |
Quote:
Can't sell raw items until he gets the good feedback level Yeah, I misread the statement and interpreted it as "are only allowed to sell certified coins [after or when] you reach a decent feed back rating."  |
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
5362 Posts |
The best solution is "Let the buyer Beware" like ebay decided in 2013 after many experiments. That is the only legal defense they have against numerous lawsuits. Any attempt to make ebay safe for foolish people is doomed to failure. 1. Novices buy anything 2. Greed on the part of buyers and sellers is common 3. ebay is a venue not an auctioneer 4. Third Party Authentication is a costly extra worthless in many cases |
|
Valued Member
404 Posts |
@swamperbob wholeheartedly agree - ebay is the the swap meet / garage sale of the internet - that is what makes is at once great and tricky. You have to live off of your wits, but alas, snowflakes and greedy idiots are the ones they pander to these days. They will never be an Amazon, and why should they be? They just have to figure that out. |
|
Pillar of the Community
Australia
1333 Posts |
ROFL
hmm smart cookies, well I guess they think they are SART. So what happens when there are hundreds of people try to submit that they have receive fake 100K watches?
|
|
Pillar of the Community
Canada
5253 Posts |
Quote:
You acknowledge and agree that if the third party authenticator detects fraud or suspects that an item is counterfeit, the item will be confiscated and not recirculated in the marketplace I would have some serious concerns about the legal aspects of this statement-which appears on the surface to be a waiver of some sort. I would not send product I thought was genuine to an unknown third party who can decide whether to keep it or not. |
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
5362 Posts |
ryurazuWatches and coins are totally different issues. With watches there are actual interested parties like the makers who want to stop counterfeit sales because it cuts into their business. They hold a copyright. They are protecting their business. If they are going to be the experts doing the authentication - there is no problem they are experts. Let them confiscate all the fakes - FINE. However that situation is far different from old non-monetary coins from countries that no longer exist. In that case, there is no one with the legal standing to confiscate anything. There is no one competent to complain about the sale of a counterfeit unless the counterfeit is monetary and is intended for use in circulation. Now FRAUD - that is a Crime. That is the only thing ebay and/or the coin community should be at all interested in when it comes to coins. Fraud as it relates to coins is a numismatic deception that causes one party to overpay for a coin. Coins that are over graded, damaged or altered are of course fraudulent. ebay used to care but not now. According to the ANA the most serious problem is the influx of cheaply made Numismatic Forgeries coming from China and Eastern Europe. The problem arises when you realize that in International parlance what is Fraud in the US may actually be legal in a place like China, France or Spain. In these cases there is no crime involved in making copies of old coins from other jurisdictions like the US. This legal problem makes the only option to limit shipment to the US from places where laws are different. This was done with France. But China and Spain both threatened to sue ebay if that solution was applied to them. Hence the "Let the seller beware policy" instituted by ebay legal in 2013. I wonder what changed between 2013 and now? Did China stop making knock-off watches? I would hope that ebay chooses which items to authenticate very carefully.
|
|
Page 2 of 2
|
Replies: 19 / Views: 3,594 |
Page 2 of 2
|
First Page
Posted 09/08/2020 5:45 pm
