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 Replies: 19 / Views: 4,823 |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2495 Posts |
The Canadian coin market stinks.
Since 2008, the prices crashed, big spending collectors stopped buying and way too many auctions having super high grades flooded the market.
Anybody tells you different, they're most likely a dealer.
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Pillar of the Community
  United States
1352 Posts |
SPP - I hope you are right that more are interested in varieties. Time will tell if that continues and holds up the prices. I think we agree that demand is far more important than supply in determining prices.
http://www.victoriancent.com2011 & 2025 Fred Bowman Award Winner, 2020 J. Douglas Ferguson Award Winner, & 2022 Paul Fiocca Award Winner. Life Member of RCNA.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1352 Posts |
Doubleeagle - We do not have an obvious apex collector in the Canadian market, such as Belzberg, or the previous owner of the Canadiana collection, or Cook. That said, there are still collectors buying five and six figure Canadian coins. I saw several at the Cook auction. I think the market problems begin below the five and six figure levels.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1984 Posts |
I think the hobby is seeing an uptick in interest. People have time on their hands. Silver and gold prices are high. Non-copper coins are making money for collectors. I suspect a lot of common date silver has been melted recently. But there seems to be real demand for copper too. It is just one example, but TCNC last night sold a bunch of 1990s mint cent rolls. They went for more or less $50 each. Pretty nice price I would say. I have sold a few surplus coins at auction lately and I have been pleased with about 80% of the results. Not bad I would say.
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Valued Member
Canada
395 Posts |
There has been a big uptick during the pandemic. The usual stuff like most keydates seem to be exceeding trends(if properly graded, not the usual overgraded stuff you find). I also saw the insane price for 90s original cent rolls, but this only seems affect the cents for the 90s. There seems to be a similar situation with most of the 80s and some of 70s rolls for 1, 5, 10 and 25 cent. I've seen a good uptick in the multi-coloured series of bills, it's not that they are going for that much more it's just I'm selling at least 10 times as much as before. The fact that a lot of people are staying inside now and the big increase to gold and silver has brought in some fresh blood.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2781 Posts |
Quote:
TCNC last night sold a bunch of 1990s mint cent rolls. They went for more or less $50 each. Pretty nice price I would say. $50 a roll isn't pretty nice.... it's pretty insane. CERB benefits at it's finest. as to the current state of the market, I can't comment other than to say that the common crap on ebay is there day after day, week after week, month after month - but the good stuff seems to be moving if it's priced fairly. |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1081 Posts |
Very interesting thread. As a return collector - currently ~2 years in - I'm very keenly trolling ebay and other auction sites and I'm buying steadily. I'm mostly buying key date NFLD Victorian silver, though, as my collection grows, I'm moving cautiously into copper as well as Canadian and the British Empire more generally. I'm also actively seeking to replace VF-30 and lower with EF and higher versions; as my own grading skill improves. I find the hunt to be very exciting and I think I'm in it for the long haul. The question in my mind is whether there are enough people like me to sustain this hobby on into the future? I see a few people on these threads who are much younger but mostly my impression is that we're a bunch of 50+ guys. And mostly I see the same names popping up in these threads.... Will people continue to think that scarce old coins have any value 40 years from now? |
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Valued Member
Canada
119 Posts |
As a still new-ish collector, my perspective might be different, and your outlook may depend on what you collect. I am not a large cent guy (except for filling out my type-set), so I can't comment on most of the OP's points. I collect Canadian silver dollars, aiming mostly for MS examples, and I can tell you that at least from looking (all anecdotal of course) at what's available on ebay and a few dealers, it's the same stuff that was there months ago. A few of the dealers I have bought dollars from in the past seem to have depleted their inventories of the nicest examples, and without coin shows, have been much slower in acquiring new inventory. So if I want nicer stuff, I may have to go the auction route (which I have done before and might do again), or wait until coin shows return. Prices still seem high for many lower demand items, even with the price of silver's recent rise. I can be patient as I have varied and elastic collecting interests, so I can wait for the right coin to come along for a given date. As to point 9, I am hardly a YN (I'm 42), but I did notice very few people younger than me on the bourse at the RCNA show in Calgary in 2019. That doesn't bode well for the overall future of the hobby. |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2495 Posts |
Most dealers still think it's the pre-2008 'good times' with the coin market. Trends hasn't been lowered and the dealers haven't lowered their selling percentage price of Trends either. They're still looking for 80% to 100% of Trends, while a lot of good to high grade material sits on ebay at 60% of Trends. I'm of course speaking in general terms, but a retail price from a dealer (if they truly want to move their goods) should be between 50% to 60% of Trends. Edited by doubleeagle59
10/15/2020 3:07 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1352 Posts |
I am not a dealer so I may be wrong, but it seems to me that Canadian dealers are probably sitting on quite a bit of inventory, most of it in ICCS holders. As long as they can handle the carrying costs, they do not have much incentive to lower their sell prices or lower Trends numbers.
That may change if the market in many areas stays sluggish and dealers feel economic pressure to sell more. If that occurs, I suspect they may first sell to other dealers who can stand the pressure longer. I do not think their first choice will be to make big reductions in retail prices, as that could be self-defeating for the dealer community in the long term.
http://www.victoriancent.com2011 & 2025 Fred Bowman Award Winner, 2020 J. Douglas Ferguson Award Winner, & 2022 Paul Fiocca Award Winner. Life Member of RCNA.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1923 Posts |
Some interesting questions Rob, my take on them.
1) I think both holders still hold the nicer Cent coins. I prefer PCGS my self as well.
2) I have had it go both ways when cross grading from ICCS holders to PCGS holders. The EF - AU coins seem to do really well, as well nice MS 63 mark free coins with eye appeal in ICCS holders.
3) It sucks to be a Canadian when it comes to the exchange rate. I remember not long ago it was the other way around so one never knows.
5) I have done well on e-bay as a buyer in this area, for question (4) ms-62- MS-63
6) I agree my heart thumps when I see one for sale in an auction they usually go higher than my budget.
7) I agree.
8) I think it is happening already in trends and buyers.
9) Who really knows?
Edited by papeldog
10/15/2020 3:58 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1352 Posts |
Jim - The exchange really does suck. It cuts both ways depending on if you are buying or selling.
1. Right now Canadian collectors at a Canadian auction pay the Hammer x 1.20 in juice x 1.15 in taxes, or about 38% above hammer in CAD. In a U.S. auction, they pay Hammer x 1.2 in juice x 1.30 exchange x 1.15 in taxes, or about 79% more CAD than the USD hammer. U. S. buyers benefit from both the exchange rate and no taxes for U.S. deliveries (some US states have 7 or 8% sales tax on U.S. auctions, which companies like Heritage do charge). In the U.S., we usually only pay taxes (28%) on any profits when we sell.
2. As a U.S. collector of Canadian coins, if I sell now the exchange rate very much works against me because it limits the ability of Canadian buyers to purchase my Canadian coins.
It is not fair, but I also remember buying Canadian coins when the USD/CAD rate was $0.90.
http://www.victoriancent.com2011 & 2025 Fred Bowman Award Winner, 2020 J. Douglas Ferguson Award Winner, & 2022 Paul Fiocca Award Winner. Life Member of RCNA.
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Valued Member
Canada
135 Posts |
I know you mentionned coin market...and I am a silver & circulation dollar collector...but can I just mention how  hot the market is for Canadian GEM uncirculated Banknotes? |
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Pillar of the Community
 Canada
5394 Posts |
The current state of the Canadian Coin Market ................
That depends , the market in CANADA for Canadian Coins
shall we say , " a rather tough row to hoe ".
The Market for Canadian Coins elsewhere , much better.
Especially in the USA .
A great deal of this certainly has to do with the EXCHANGE RATE.
Also the GST, PST, and HST is a factor . Thirdly Shipping tracked
in Canada is an expensive proposition.
Since around the middle of 2015 we have been selling over 80 percent
of our better Canada pieces in the States .
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New Member
Canada
40 Posts |
One thing that makes me pause before buying from the US is the postal shipping rates. I collect from e-bay (not just coins but other pop-culture stuff as well). The shipping rates from the US used to be quite reasonable, but about five years ago they greatly increased the costs of shipping anywhere out of the country. Sometimes the shipping rates are four times what you paid for the item. I don't know why the rates went up so much. I can understand maybe for overseas, from the US to Canada shouldn't be a problem. If I see something with that high of a shipping charge, usually I'll pass even if I'd kind of like to have the item.
Because of this, I don't buy anywhere near as much anymore. It makes me glad I bought the stuff when I did years ago, because it's much more expensive now.
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Replies: 19 / Views: 4,823 |
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Posted 10/14/2020 7:01 pm
