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Valued Member
Canada
321 Posts |
Edited by Dollar 1935
01/12/2021 08:42 am
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Valued Member
 Canada
89 Posts |
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Valued Member
Canada
321 Posts |
The pattern PC-7 in question here is a cupro-nickel large cent. The picture of this coin in the book of Bosox also show a stunning cameo we don't see well in those pictures.  If you have those kind of questions about those large cent patterns, I can't reccommend you enought this book, the work of research in it is truly outstanding. Edited by Dollar 1935
01/12/2021 11:33 am
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Valued Member
Canada
89 Posts |
Thanks, I might need to get it. Also I have another question, Also during The Palace Collections of Egypt they were selling 2 British Columbia Pattern coins. Does anyone know where those coins are? https://archive.org/details/egyptpa...ish+ColumbiaThe first one is on lot 857, page 86 and is the $20 1862 Pattern and the second one is on lot 2366, page 242 and is the $10 1862 Pattern |
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Valued Member
Canada
321 Posts |
On all the known exemple repertoried by Heritage, the Farouk Pedigree is never mentioned. Since Pittman was at this sale and had a 10$ BC-1 (silver) and a 20$ (gold) I guess the pittman coins are the Farouk coins  . If this is the case, the 10$ was in the Belzberg collection (not sold) : https://www.PCGSeurope.com/cert/12081107?l=frand the 20$ was sold by David Akers in 1999 in the Pittman collection for 149,500$ With three of the five known exemple of the gold 20$ in institutional collection and with 1 of the 2 being the Belzberg/Norweb exemple, the Pittman one is probably this exemple : https://www.PCGSeurope.com/cert/13912826?l=frsomeone with the original catalog of the Pittman sale of 1999 or the Norweb catalog of 1996 could confirm if there is mention of the previous pedigree of their gold 20$ to confirm. Edited by Dollar 1935
01/13/2021 09:22 am
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Valued Member
Canada
89 Posts |
I found a copy of the Norweb catalog of 1996 which had 2 1862 $20 Patterns, one made of silver and one made of Gold. The one made of silver was lot 719 and the one made of gold was right after which was lot 720. The silver Pattern realized a price of $25,300 and the gold Pattern realized a price of $143,000.
I wonder how much their worth today.
I tried to find the catalog for the Pittman sale of 1999 but I was unable to do so.
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Valued Member
Canada
89 Posts |
Hey Dollar, do happen to know if any of the patterns were graded by NGC. There has been 7 graded by PCGS. Whos collections do you think those are in?
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
1353 Posts |
I had the pleasure of seeing the set, silver and gold, one night when Sid Belzberg owned it. I think that set is now in the Bank of Canada.
When I was working on the specimen book, I got to examine raw $10 and $20 gold examples in MS, donated by Governor Seymour to the British Museum in 1864. They have been there ever since.
http://www.victoriancent.com2011 & 2025 Fred Bowman Award Winner, 2020 J. Douglas Ferguson Award Winner, & 2022 Paul Fiocca Award Winner. Life Member of RCNA.
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Valued Member
Canada
89 Posts |
Wow, wish I could've seen them. Does the British Museum own a $10 and $20? I thought they only had the $20.
Also since there are 7 British Columbia Pattern coins in PCGS holders, does that mean all those are in private collections? Museums don't send coins in for grading.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1353 Posts |
Yes the BM has a $10 and $20 gold. Their online database is somewhat dated and contains errors and omissions. They are working on that as their resources allow.
Some BC coins were graded and then donated to museums. I do not know how many, but very few remain in private hands.
http://www.victoriancent.com2011 & 2025 Fred Bowman Award Winner, 2020 J. Douglas Ferguson Award Winner, & 2022 Paul Fiocca Award Winner. Life Member of RCNA.
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Moderator
 Canada
10459 Posts |
Quote:
Museums don't send coins in for grading. No, but they acquire them sometimes in graded holders, then promptly crack them out. "Discovery follows discovery, each both raising and answering questions, each ending a long search, and each providing the new instruments for a new search." -- J. Robert OppenheimerContent of this post is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 3.0 Unported License. See: http://creativecommons.org/licenses...0/deed.en_USMy eBay store
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Valued Member
Canada
89 Posts |
Quote:
then promptly crack them out so sad  |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
999 Posts |
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Valued Member
Canada
89 Posts |
Because then we don't know which are in private collections or which ones are in museums. In total I think there is an estimated 25 patterns and if only 7 have been graded and some probably have been cracked out there is a very little amount of pieces for collectors. Sure I guess everyone can see them in museums but most of these patterns that are in museums are in storage and not shown to the public.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1353 Posts |
I have found the only way to accurately find out what the various museums have in their collections is to either visit them, or correspond with them. In general, the museums do not have the resources needed to keep their online databases accurate and up to date. This is certainly true for the Bank of Canada, the British Museum, the Oxford University collection, and the Cambridge University collection. I suspect it true for nearly all the significant museum numismatic collections.
As SN pointed out, most museums have very limited display area available. Most of their collections that I have seen personally are raw and stored in wooden coin cabinets. Some are spectacular. For examples, in my museum research I have examined Canada fifty cent coins dated 1888, 1890-H and 1894, all raw, and all in either 64 or 65.
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Posted 01/12/2021 08:58 am
