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Replies: 26 / Views: 2,660 |
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Pillar of the Community
 Canada
557 Posts |
DS, totally agree with your observations and that's why I stick to buying coins that are graded by either of the two majors. I try and buy what looks really good, but sometimes, like in the case of an 1837 Classic Head Quarter Eagle, there are very few if any pieces out there. I think, maybe wrongly so, that a much scarcer coin is still hard to come by and therefore may be a little easier to sell down the road. In other words, while grading is still important, it isn't everything.
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Valued Member
 United States
461 Posts |
If it is an issue you are likely to find a substitute for without much difficulty, don't buy it unless you love it. If the coin is harder to come by, you will have to balance eye appeal against scarcity and grade value. If it going to be your only chance in a long time, if ever, to buy in a grade you can afford, you might want to snap it up. For example, I am working on a set of pre-1861 Seated dimes. Many issues have fewer than 100 known in mint state condition. There is not a high demand for this series, so many of the higher grade pieces make there way around slowly, but often remain available for longer than one would think. I have followed the same coin for months before I decide to buy, or someone pulls the trigger first. So you can usually avoid a rush to judgment. Eye appeal can be greatly enhanced by toning, and a beautifully toned, one of a kind MS 63 can bring more ownership joy than a bright and shiny "gem" that looks like a lot of other bright and shiny gems. The gem is replaceable, the toned coin is unique and is not. Again, as an example, I have a beautiful, original AU50 1859-O Seated dime with attractive multi-color toning that looks nicer than any mint state example I have seen of that date, or several other dates. And buying the lower grade saved me a lot of money. I think technical grade (that's all it is) is way too important in pricing. It might be worth more on resale, but your initial investment will be higher. Before I buy, I systematically check out every option available I know of for the coin I want to buy. I don't buy the coin I am looking at if I can find an example I like better unless cost makes buying the "better" coin unreasonable. My main observation on grade is that it can really jack the price up, and if you are going to pay more, you better like it enough more to justify the cost difference. To me, it is a real serendipity to find a coin I love in a lower grade than I expected to buy.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3343 Posts |
Regarding the 1837 quarter eagle, collector's corner currently lists 5 of them. There's a raw one on the bay for $1175 BIN or offer (a good $500 example IMO). This is a relatively easy to obtain coin in the market, if you're willing to pay the price. The challenge is finding one for $500 or less. Right now there are scarcer and more desirable coins than the 1837, available at lower premiums.
Scarce gold coins used to be more reasonably priced.I found an 1857-S half eagle in a dealer shop 30 years ago at a low premium over melt, and it whetted my appetite for more of same.
"Two minutes ago I would have sold my chances for a tired dime." Fred Astaire
Edited by thq 01/12/2022 10:11 am
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Pillar of the Community
 Canada
557 Posts |
"The challenge is finding one for $500 or less." Well, not sure who would be willing to sell a coin like that for a price like that when much more could be gained, and quite easily. Demand does set the price, not the individual IMO.
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Pillar of the Community
Russian Federation
1557 Posts |
In TPG, I have never seen frankly bad coins. People try to send their best copies there. That's why I like to look for PCGS-rated coins in my collection so much. I heard somewhere that there are collectors who will never put MS coins in their collection. For them, it is important that the moment at least visited the appeals a little, so that she absorbed the spirit of that time and those people who held her. I agree with them in part. For some, a coin with a patina is not suitable for a collection, for others it is one of the key factors for searching. We are all different and we all have different tastes.
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Pillar of the Community
 Canada
557 Posts |
Slerk, I totally concur. For me, each coin has potentially it's own story and that's what I find fascinating. Often a coin with visible wear is more appealing, to me, than a near perfect MS.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3343 Posts |
Much more could be gained on that 1837 wallyb, but not from me. Granted, it has gotten harder to find bargains on the coins I'm looking for. Over the last two years I've seen more people looking for the same coins. So I've broadened my interests and have found other affordable categories to collect. I'm not trying to fill the last hole in a coin book.
In some categories I have wiped out the available supply. Once a bargain 1871-S half eagle or 1875-CC quarter is purchased, it is not immediately replaced from inventory. The next one that comes to market is inevitably higher priced....and out of my price range....
"Two minutes ago I would have sold my chances for a tired dime." Fred Astaire
Edited by thq 01/15/2022 08:13 am
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Pillar of the Community
 Canada
557 Posts |
thq, it seems to me that forums like ebay have forever changed the hobby, bringing in many more novice collectors who may be unwittingly driving prices upward. I also think that the pandemic may be contributing to some degree and scarcity of some coins may occur more than in past. But, I could be mistaken. I watch coins of interest on ebay and am frequently shocked at the prices being paid.
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Valued Member
 United States
461 Posts |
An influx of new collectors propping up the value of what we already own can't be all bad, can it?
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1316 Posts |
I think that for collectors, which the majority of us on this website, eye appeal is something important to us. When we are looking to fill a hole in our collection, we want something that looks nice and we are proud to own. It's more than just a math game for how much of a margin we think we can score when we flip it sooner than later. We are a skewed sample size. Also, those of us on the website are just browsing around. Few of us those that post on a thread are actively collecting the series at topic a lot of the time. And for the few who are, not many are chasing the listed coin too. So weather its an XF or an MS65 may be secondary to "oh, that's pretty!" because most of us don't actually have skin in the game. Stuff that gets comments is usually either pretty or ugly, and the mundane doesn't motivate entering replies as people move on to look for other things more interesting. Eye appeal is interesting and gets people talking! (In my 6 years on this board, I can only think of a couple times that I saw a topic, went on the hunt for that listing, and became a bidder on it.) TPG's have commoditized coins and their populations reports have shown us what is actually rare or at what point something might become rare. It has certainly allowed for dealers to buy and trade coins based on a label with no regard to eye appeal, and in many instances, coins are traded sight unseen because of the label. Rarity is a funky word and should assume supply and demand. Is a coin rare is there are 5 in the world but only 1 person cares to chase it down? Is a coin rare if there are 10,000 of them but 100,000 people hop on a website for the second of go-live in hopes of being among the lucky 10%? In the US markets, there are very few truly rare coins with surviving specimens counting as handful or dozen. - Its demand and competition on US coins that makes things like the 1893-S "rare" even though there are over 80 on ebay right now, and Heritage, Stacks, and Great Collections probably have a few more right now, and there are a few thousand sitting in collections. It's not a rare coin. My 382 AD Western Satraps coin has about 5 known specimens and I was lucky to pry it from the gentleman who wrote the book on the series... and I paid a lot less than a G4 1893-S for it.
Edited by Collects82 01/15/2022 1:46 pm
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Valued Member
 United States
461 Posts |
I like the old stuff. I buy coins with the preservation level that could only be maintained by having passed from one collection to another, often for over 150 years. There simply aren't that many coins out there to choose from that I like. Fortunately I am not dealing with popular series with high demand. I am always looking around to see what is available. Auctions, dealers handling them, and, yes ebay. I can't but all the time, and some of those I like a lot get by me. Before buying, I check retail and wholesale prices and everything like the coin I can find before making a purchase decision. I have seen a lot of auction prices go over retail, even more so than a lot of ebay prices. On, ebay and elsewhere, a lot of my decisions hinge on how much I want the coin. I don't mind going $20 -$40 over retail, depending how much it is worth, because I don't have to pay listing fees, package it and take it to the post office. I look at it as cost recovery. As for those looking for a lot more than retail, I just sort of snort and move on.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3343 Posts |
ebay definitely increased the availability of coins. 20 years ago a lot of time was spent going to shops and shows, finding coins by random luck. ebay sped that up. There are still bargains but not as often.
"Two minutes ago I would have sold my chances for a tired dime." Fred Astaire
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
20753 Posts |
For me it is eye appeal first. I really don't care about grade or price but only if I like the coin.
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Pillar of the Community
 Canada
557 Posts |
Definitely eye appeal first Just Carl, but after that, for most of us, comes budget. If budget were never an issue I'd be travelling the world to examine potential buys in person.
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Valued Member
 United States
461 Posts |
Yeah, you've got to find one you like in a grade you can afford. Some well worn issues develop attractive circulation cameos. Many of the issues in the series I currently am focused on ( LS Dimes before 1861) are very expensive in higher grades, but I have seen many attractive VF 20 specimens of the hard dates that I would love to have in my collection.
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