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Bedrock of the Community
United States
62064 Posts |
But to be the real deal, we need to see the tops of the date to see if they look like the same thing. If it looks like this mintmark, then it is a normal coin. So I need to see the tops of the date devices to know for sure what is going on here. I need an image of the full date and mintmark area to make a determination if this is a RPM, or not.
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
2111 Posts |
Here you go Coop, I took two photos one upside down and rotated it right side up, one right side up to see the how it looks with the light striking the coin differently. Hope these photos help. My Question is this a double Die Obverse with how the date looks?   "LOVE THE HUNT!"
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
3328 Posts |
With the close ups on the MM I am on the RPM side, it could be an RPM that also has MD, the mint mark seems to have 2 sets of doubling to me where the rest of the coin shows clear MD. I'll say it's an RPM that has MD as well. Just look at the MM and see there is two sets of doubling one is flatter then the other, the rest of the date has the same MD or even possible DDD but the MM is the only thing with 2 sets of doubling... So RPM-001 with MD on top possibly? I don't normal comment on rpms. Edit: was there a master hub doubling for this year? The 6 appears to have doubling almost like a doubled die. Edited by Wrekkdd
08/04/2022 4:16 pm
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
6244 Posts |
Thanks Arby for the second set of the photos. I feel bad to say IMO is not an RPM. I was glad to see a new one come out. This is my opinion after I see the date. The date and the MM show me all NNE.
@Kopper: I have now idea from which folklore you state the one is flat and other is round? In 68 in San Francisco use vertical presses. Each strike has an small rebound from the floor elasticity which can contribute to an very minors MD. To day they use horizontal presses, which eliminate all those contra forces of the strike. (Mint processes)
Edited by silviosi
08/04/2022 6:07 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2111 Posts |
Silviosi, Thank you for the information, I have to go by what others tell me. I am no expert by any means. The conflicting opinions are confusing and that is why I find this hobby so frustrating. One can post a coin on three different sites and get three different opinions. When I look at photos on Variety Vista of DDO and DDR one can't see what doubling is on the photos. When one does see some photos, some of those photos look like Mechanical Doubling that goes the same as RPM's. It can be so frustration. One thing I like about this site one gets good information without snide remarks and individuals being rude. It truly appears everyone is trying to help, and I do appreciate that. This is the first time I have ever seen this type of MD. I wish they all were like the 1955 LMC a little more or a little less. There are way to many types of doubling out there and really no where to go to seek assistance quickly, without spending lots of $$$$$. Thanks again. I have several more 1968S that appear to possibility be RPM's We will see!  oops   "LOVE THE HUNT!"
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
3328 Posts |
I'm probably wrong and have much less experience with RPMs but the mint mark is still the only thing in any photos showing a double split I'm the design. MD is obviouse in the date and MM but the MM shows 2 seperate forms of doubling the rest of the close ups I only see one. "Bounce" doubling would be apparent on all devices so why is it just the mint mark showing two seperate forms of doubling?
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
62064 Posts |
I'm seeing Machine Doubling on the date and the mintmark in the same direction. Normal coin. The 1968-1972 had a lot of Machine Doubling. Even the doubled dies had Machine Doubling on the 1969-S DDO's.  How can you tell which is which? On the DDO, that is on the die. The mintmarks are added to the dies in a different process:  So when you see the Machine Doubling and mintmark doubling in the same direction it is Machine Doubling. The images of the 69-S shows there is a DDO, but the mintmarks are normal, but both the date and the mintmark have the same direction of Machine Doubling. Working up the images for this coin helped me see that the Machine Doubling is very slight. Part of what we are seeing is part of the normal device, but the arrows I added show how slight the Machine Doubling actually is:    CoopHome: Is it true that a doubled die would not have the same direction of a RPM? True So far none have been found. There are doubled variety coins with a DDO and a RPM, but not in the same direction. I would save this coin as an educational piece to show to new collectors you meet. Edited by coop
08/05/2022 1:28 pm
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
6244 Posts |
Thanks COOP. One think, the photo from Wexler show how the MM was punch till mid 50's with goldsmith tools. After those punches was insert in a press, no more the grip ball used. The presses with the stand was adjusted by the engravers which give us different location and also different directions of the MM.
Thanks for a so nice explanation.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2111 Posts |
Coop awesome photos references you created, I pulled two of these that I pulled that are almost identical. Learning everyday.!
"LOVE THE HUNT!"
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
3328 Posts |
Even with the explanation from coop I'm still not convinced. Most of the photos looks like obviouse MD, the mint mark is the only thing I see showing a double step(two forms of doubling). It is as clear as day...look at the MM and tell me there is not a "double step" the rest of the devices just show MD(single step)
Edit: the 9 in the date actually shows 2 steps but in the opposite direction of the mint marks secondary doubling.
Edited by Wrekkdd
08/05/2022 8:00 pm
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
62064 Posts |
But the outside edge is part of the normal mintmark is what you are seeing. The Machine Doubling is a very thin line that is between the with white and yellow arrows. That is how slight the Machine Doubling is. But it gives the suggest that there is a part of a RPM. But is it pushing the metal SW towards the direction of the MD.When you isolate the outside part of a mintmark and consider the push of the Machine Doubling, that you are seeing, on this image. Note the same thing is happening also on the date as well. That tells me the machine is making this difference and all other examples of this die, will not be showing it. Just this one machine doubled coin. This would never be listed as it is the only one like it. If is not a die variety, but just slight Machine Doubling. Edited by coop
08/05/2022 8:04 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
877 Posts |
Would it really be impossible to find an unattributed RPM for this year? Well my gosh, some years have so many, I just throw in the towel and move on.
From the knowledge and information I have acquired here, I see a RPM.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
62064 Posts |
1968S-1MM-001  Evidence of a second punching is needed to be a RPM This one is a north. You can see it on the top of the mintmark and in the lower loop of the 'S'. 1968-S RPM-002 http://www.varietyvista.com/02b%20L...8SRPM002.htmS/S West on this one. 1968-S RPM-003 http://www.varietyvista.com/02b%20L...8SRPM003.htmNote this one is just showing a slight spread to the SE. Its not the enlarged mintmark, that makes it a RPM, but evidence of two punches.  Look at the size of the Mintmark? It is not a RPM. It doesn't show a second punching. The punches enlarged the mintmark, but doesn't show a separation of the punches. Edited by coop
08/05/2022 8:14 pm
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
3328 Posts |
I generally don't focus on rpms or modern doubled dies. Finding a variety that is not listed is possible, I can't confirm or anything I said is correct it's just opinion. I don't see the same doubling on the rest of the coin as I do in the MM. Best off listening to coop and the pros though. I'll have to do some more reading I think:)
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
62064 Posts |
If you found this in an original roll of cents, check to see if you can find another one with the same mintmark location. Then you will know that is Machine Doubling, when you see the same markers on another coin with the same mintmark location. |
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First Page
Posted 08/04/2022 11:17 am
