Coin Community Family of Web Sites Join Thousands of Coin, Bullion, & Money Collectors
Join Thousands of Coin, Bullion, & Money Collectors Vancouvers #1 Coin and Paper Money Dealer Coin, Banknote and Medal Collectors's Online Mall Royal Estate Auctions - $1 Coin Auctions300,000 items to help build your collection! Royal Canadian Mint products, Canadian, Polish, American, and world coins and banknotes. Specializing in Modern Numismatics








Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?


This page may contain links that result in small commissions to keep this free site up and running.

Welcome Guest! Registering and/or logging in will remove the anchor (bottom) ads. It's Free!

What Did ANACS Do To Deserve Its Bad Rap?

To participate in the forum you must log in or register.
First Page  Showing last 15 replies.
Author Previous TopicReplies: 21 / Views: 6,494Next Topic Page 2 of 2
Pillar of the Community
United States
1778 Posts
 Posted 11/01/2022  11:14 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add psuman08 to your friends list
I think Coinfrog nailed this one. ANACS has had periods where they were tough or maybe better stated as accurate with their grading. They also have periods where they were quite lenient. If you look at the coin, you can find some very nice coins in ANACs holders.
Pillar of the Community
United States
7293 Posts
 Posted 11/01/2022  11:35 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add hfjacinto to your friends list
What coinfrog said. Although last few years I feel ANACS has been pretty good if not stricter than PCGS or NGC.

I know we say this all the time, buy the coin not that slab. Look at each coin as a whole. If the coin is nicer in an ANACS slab buy that one. For the majority unless you are competing in the registry set, the slabbed shouldn't matter.
Pillar of the Community
United States
4470 Posts
 Posted 11/01/2022  12:35 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Slider23 to your friends list
There are some excellent points above why ANACS is a second tear TPG.

The ANACS small white soap holder has some excellent coins and most are correctly graded.
The ANACS blue label came after the small white label and grading on the blue label is inconsistent. The blue label may have moved collectors off of ANACS and onto PCGS and NGC.
Grading on the ANACS yellow label improved and is on par with NGC and PCGS, but does not get the same value recognition from collectors as NGC and PCGS.
ANACS does an excellent job on Morgan VAM's.
CAC does not sticker the ANACS holders, and this does have an impact on ANACS high value coins.

Bedrock of the Community
United States
12057 Posts
 Posted 11/01/2022  2:05 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add paralyse to your friends list
The not as good:

The blue label holder fiasco burned a lot of collectors on ANACS. ANACS blue label holders were wildly inconsistent and damaged the company's reputation with collectors and investors.

When ANACS lost their status as the ANA's preferred grader, that had a negative effect on their reputation as well, because it created a perception that they were "not as good" as NGC or PCGS, whether that was true or not.

To the best of my knowledge, ANACS does not operate or maintain an online database of their coins or a set registry system. Unlike PCGS and NGC, you cannot enter an ANACS slab label number into their website to see images, population, pricing data, and such. Registry Sets have become a big deal for a lot of more advanced collectors over the last few years.

ANACS to the best of my knowledge does not offer imaging services like PCGS TrueView or NGC High Resolution Photography.

CAC does not sticker ANACS holders, and CAC has become a fairly large player in the high-end collector and investor coin market.

The good:

ANA Photo Certificate, ANA small white holder, and ANACS small white holder coins, as well as the newer Yellow Label holders, tend to be fairly consistently graded, or even slightly undergraded in the case of the old white holders. They also offered net grades and split grades, which were very useful, but the practice was not picked up by PCGS or NGC.

ANACS is now in my opinion the industry leader in Morgan VAMs (along with VSS) and will attribute many of the minor VAMs that PCGS and NGC will not bother with.

ANACS recognizes and attributes the Wexler varieties on Lincoln Cents and other coins; and also recognizes and attributes many of the "less notable" Cherrypicker varieties (Fivaz-Stanton) as well as the old Finder varieties, or at least used to, whereas PCGS and NGC would only slab "notable" varieties for many years.

Although NGC is catching up / has caught up now, ANACS authenticated and slabbed many ancient and medieval coins back when the other TPG's were unwilling to do so.

ANACS is more affordable compared to PCGS and NGC, especially on bulk submits, and has faster turnaround times.

That being said, PCGS and NGC owe their position and reputation in the hobby as much to a combination of effective marketing, promotion, and advertising than to a significantly higher quality of grading accuracy in my opinion; they have leveraged deals with major auction houses and prominent collectors, slabbed famous hoards, signed agreements with all sorts of famous and not-so-famous people to put their autographs on label inserts, worked tirelessly to build value in their product (the TPG slab) with dealers and resellers, provided on-site grading and submission at major shows, made big investments in getting their TPG brands promoted in trade magazines and price guides, and so on.

These are not things that are directly related to grading coins, of course, but like most products, perceived value (the "worth" of a brand name) is not always correlated with product quality. The cost of that marketing is passed on to collectors and dealers in the form of increased submission fees, more expensive memberships, etc. In other words, you are paying a premium for the name on the label.

I like to consider ANACS a great choice for budget-minded collectors. You are getting a coin that will be graded at about the same level as PCGS and NGC, but without the "marketing" premiums added into the cost. If you are not concerned about registry sets, photography, or CAC beans, ANACS is a solid option and worth equal consideration. ANACS is also a natural fit for Morgan VAM collectors and modern error/variety collectors as well. The fact that ANACS does not spend a lot of money on marketing is also an advantage for the same reasons of lowered submission cost and faster turnaround times.

As always, buy the coin, not the holder.
Member ANA - EAC - TNA - SSDC - CCT #890

"Most of the things worth doing in the world had been declared impossible before they were done." -- Louis D. Brandeis
Pillar of the Community
United States
9796 Posts
 Posted 11/02/2022  12:15 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add westcoin to your friends list
with just about everything that paralyse wrote above about ANACS. I personally like only a couple of slabs (design wise) ANACS little white soapbox holders and SEGS holders with the top fold over label. Slider23 also nailed it with excellent points all valid and correct IMO.

That said I prefer my coins out of slabs, unless a certain value or reason to have it slabbed, ie: 1916-D dimes, and other very often counterfeited coins. I spent years learning how to grade and trust myself in grading coins I own or want to buy, but the counterfeits are getting just too good, and with some of the discoveries I've made and see from Jack Young of the "Darkside Cabinet" it's worth having certain coins backed by a monetary guarantee like PCGS and NGC have on the authenticity side.

I could care less about the registry sets, though I do like to browse them, I'll never compete and have no desire to, even if I had the money to do so they don't influence me one way or another as to a company to choose.

CAC? Yep John Albanese is a fantastic grader and coin dealer, (I looked up to him and his company way before PCGS was even a twinkle of thought), but to me it's just another service designed to get money out of the hobby, akin to selling a sort of insurance to those that have no ability or desire to learn or spend decades learning by looking and studying. Though I do appreciate what CAC does, Photo Seal from Rick Snow was the first sticker company doing a very similar thing (only on Flying eagle and Indian Head cents only), I'm happy to buy a coin stickered but I don't actively seek them out nor would I pay them to sticker my own slabs.

Just not a big fan of slabs in general, as time goes on, but I fully understand their importance in the market today. Out of the top 3 TPGs (soon to be 4 with CAC) ANACS, in my opinion will unfortunately be at the back of the pack of PCGS, NGC and CAC.

I have good friends that worked for ANACS as well as most of the other companies ICG (started by my first business partner), PCI, and SEGS beyond the top two. Every person I know that worked at those companies honestly did their very best at grading and authenticating coins, they just fell to the wayside of the market through attrition and luck of the draw and as paralyse mentioned, "marketing and promotion."

I think, another analogy are car manufactures; the top ones today are still the early big dogs (Ford/GM-Chevy) the rest are newcomers or gone by the wayside. Is CAC going to become the next Toyota or Honda? Maybe, time will tell. ANACS is still needed in the industry as a low cost solution and also as the variety ID company.

My rambling Two Cents for what it's worth - exactly nothing.

To reiterate paralyse's most important words...

Buy the coin - NOT the holder...

Oh yeah and have fun - don't get too caught up in only the grades and value.
"Buy the Book Before You Buy the Coin" - Aaron R. Feldman - "And read it" - Me 2013!
ANA Life Member #3288 in good standing since 1981, ANS, Early American Coppers Member (EAC), Colonial Coin Collectors Club member (C4), Conder Token Collector Club member (CTCC), Civil War Token Society (CWTS) member, Liberty Seated Collectors Club (LSCC) & Numismatic Bibliomania Society member (NBS), USMex, Member in good standing, 2¢ variety collector.

See my want page: http://goccf.com/t/140440
Edited by westcoin
11/02/2022 12:27 am
Pillar of the Community
United States
4233 Posts
 Posted 11/02/2022  12:46 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add kbbpll to your friends list
What did ANACS do to deserve its bad rap/rep? People said it on the internet. Then people kept repeating it. And in my observation, the loudest voices are fanboys for a particular service (cough cough PCGS cough cough). Maybe it was deserved at a point in time, I have no idea, I judge the coin and not the plastic its in. I don't own a whole lot of slabs but objectively I'd say I disagree with PCGS a lot more than ANACS (or NGC). As a casual observer it almost seems like there's a concerted effort to crush them by the other two and their related players (registry sets, CAC...).

@paralyse has many good points. One correction though - you can verify a cert on ANACS. I don't know how recent that feature is - they do appear to have redone their website since my last visit. Another plus is that they have a presence at a lot of smaller coin shows that the other two can't be bothered with.

Edit: On the guarantee thing, theirs doesn't seem much different than others, with the caveat that it applies to after 2007. https://anacs.com/the-anacs-guarantee/
Their imaging service is $3.
Edited by kbbpll
11/02/2022 01:00 am
Bedrock of the Community
United States
10982 Posts
 Posted 11/02/2022  01:09 am  Show Profile   Check BH1964's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add BH1964 to your friends list
ANACS changed hands (owners) a half a dozen times in the last 30 years. That alone contributed to much of their inconsistency and second tier reputation.
ANA #R3154474
Pillar of the Community
United States
1316 Posts
 Posted 11/02/2022  02:13 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Collects82 to your friends list
I'm a collector that has occasionally submitted to ANACS when a monthly special aligns with my stars. I digg varieties and the occasional error. Morgan VAMs and EAC or Snow attributions tickle my fancy. ANACS is awesome for this.

In terms of consistency, sometimes I'm left scratching my head, but no more or less than mistakes I see coming out of the bigger guys. NGC/PCGS certainly make some odd calls with EAC and MS Morgans here and there as well with far too many getting "market acceptable" passes too.

As others have said, PCGS/NGC are winning at marketing. But don't let that fool you on a slabbed coin by coin basis.

Always let the coin speak for itself and use your own eye and mind in grading for yourself.

The market needs ANACS.

What-Did-ANACS-Do-To-Deserve-Its-Bad-Rap?
Edited by Collects82
11/02/2022 02:25 am
Bedrock of the Community
Learn More...
United States
18708 Posts
 Posted 11/02/2022  10:22 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add panzaldi to your friends list
perception of ANACS may be enhanced if they would bring their ugly yellow slabs into the 21st century. when you place them side by side with PCGS hand NGC holders, ANACS loses in the eye appeal category. its just like anything else, sometimes we buy with our eyes.
Pillar of the Community
United States
1521 Posts
 Posted 11/02/2022  11:12 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ericgreen to your friends list

Quote:
perception of ANACS may be enhanced if they would bring their ugly yellow slabs into the 21st century


Couldn't agree more with that. Not a fan at all of their slabs.
Bedrock of the Community
United States
12057 Posts
 Posted 11/02/2022  11:23 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add paralyse to your friends list
I look at it like buying a truck. You buy a truck because you need to haul stuff.
Any truck with a bed, from the cheapest to the most expensive, will haul your stuff as long as it fits.
As you start adding options, the price goes up, but the basic functionality is the same -- it's a truck.

For more money, you start getting more power, more payload capacity, and things that can make your truck better at hauling your stuff or make it more convenient to do so, and the prestige of higher trim levels or premium brands. But it's still a truck.

If you just need to haul some stuff, there's no need to spend $80k on a truck when you can get the same hauling done for $25k. How much "extra" stuff you need and can justify is based on your preferences and your budget.
Member ANA - EAC - TNA - SSDC - CCT #890

"Most of the things worth doing in the world had been declared impossible before they were done." -- Louis D. Brandeis
Pillar of the Community
United States
2596 Posts
 Posted 11/19/2022  9:38 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jessvc1 to your friends list
I just saw this post and I consider anacs to be just as good as ngc and PCGS but what do I know? I'm sure ngc and PCGS get more prestige from the pop reports and the registry collections they have on the websites. Like the old saying goes buy the coins not the holders.
Pillar of the Community
Learn More...
United States
4594 Posts
 Posted 11/21/2022  1:46 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BStrauss3 to your friends list
Some statements Paralyse made...


Quote:
To the best of my knowledge, ANACS does not operate or maintain an online database of their coins or a set registry system. Unlike PCGS and NGC, you cannot enter an ANACS slab label number into their website to see images, population, pricing data, and such. Registry Sets have become a big deal for a lot of more advanced collectors over the last few years.


No registry nor pricing data, images are spotty, but there certainly is an online database and population report:

https://portal.anacs.com/Verify/Cer...ication.aspx

How good are the PCGS/NCG price guides anyway? Often comment that they are overly proud of their plastic.

The database goes all the way back to the earliest XX#### slabs. The data for the photocert INTAKE is in ledgers held by the ANA Museum, but not online.

-----Burton
50+ year / Life / Emeritus ANA member (joined 12/1/1973)
Life member: Numismatics International, CONECA
Member: TNA, FtWCC, NETCC, EveryCountry (online) coin club
Owned by three cats and a wife of 40+ years (joined 1983)

Author: 3rd Edition of the Sample Slabs book, https://www.sampleslabs.info/
Pillar of the Community
Learn More...
United States
4594 Posts
 Posted 11/21/2022  1:52 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BStrauss3 to your friends list
One needs to be careful of blanket statements:


Quote:
The ANACS small white soap holder has some excellent coins and most are correctly graded.


The SWH with XX#### cert#s were certified by ANA and then continued for several years when Amos Press bought ANACS. Amos switched to the all numeric certs and graded over 3 million coins.

At the end of the SWH, they sold ANACS to Anderson Press which started the Blue holders.

The transition from strict ANA Grading Standards (technical) to more market grading started under Amos and accelerated under Anderson.

Not all SWH are 'equal'.

But to be fair, every TPG has moved away from technical grading to market grading - why do you think there is so much crack-out and resubmit, even up to today?

-----Burton
50+ year / Life / Emeritus ANA member (joined 12/1/1973)
Life member: Numismatics International, CONECA
Member: TNA, FtWCC, NETCC, EveryCountry (online) coin club
Owned by three cats and a wife of 40+ years (joined 1983)

Author: 3rd Edition of the Sample Slabs book, https://www.sampleslabs.info/
Valued Member
United States
66 Posts
 Posted 11/21/2022  5:07 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add drmenard to your friends list
The grading has changed for all these grading services. In the early days of Anacs I sent a 1886O morgan. It came back a MS60. Kept it for many years then sent it to PCGS, came back MS62 .. I have a 1889CC morgan, I sent to NGC, came back details, then sent it to PCGS, came back F15, no details.I have sent over 50 coins to Anacs in the past few years and I think they are tough, maybe even tougher than the other two. One of the nicest morgans I have is in a SEGS holder.
Page 2 of 2   Previous TopicReplies: 21 / Views: 6,494Next Topic Page 2 of 2
First Page  Showing last 15 replies.
To participate in the forum you must log in or register.


    




Disclaimer: While a tremendous amount of effort goes into ensuring the accuracy of the information contained in this site, Coin Community assumes no liability for errors. Copyright 2005 - 2026 Coin Community Family- all rights reserved worldwide. Use of any images or content on this website without prior written permission of Coin Community or the original lender is strictly prohibited.
Contact Us  |  Advertise Here  |  Privacy Policy / Terms of Use

Coin Community Forum © 2005 - 2026 Coin Community Forums
It took 0.47 seconds to rattle this change. Forums