1755 8 Reales Recovered, Real Or Counterfeit ?

FYI.... I have found that higher end gold and precious metals Brokers have the high end XRF Testers that can now break down an alloy into it's individual elemental composition percentages with exacting accuracy. Within a fraction of a percentage point. Especially when checking thinner materials like coins & jewelery. No kidding, even trace metals!!

realeswatcher - I checked that thread as you suggested, and it would appear that they may have located the site where counterfeits were produced. Two matching examples and a planchet in the same location could point to a forgery ring operating in that vicinity.

Metalvarsity, Thanks for the information, much appreciated

I have written one full length book to date. Counterfeit Portrait Eight-Reales is available at Amazon.com.

The hard cover edition was sold out in a year, but the soft covers are still in production. I had hope to do an update adding 150 new varieties, but my work on a second book has prevented that to date.

I was able to find a university to do the XRF test on the 8 reales. I will not post the University name, so it does not get bombarded with requests.

I was not able to get a percentage print out report I was allowed to take a photo of the spectrum analysis. Below are photos spectrum, Over 90% silver content, and a small percentage of copper. The small peak circled in yellow would be less than 1% AU According to the person performing the test. There are no other strange elements involved.

I am not familiar with that particular readout, but both tests show a similar pattern of peaks which would indicate a very similar alloy. Both appear to show a similar "under 1%" reading for gold. I only wish the operator had given you some indication of how far under one percent. One percent equals 10,000 ppm, so under 1% is a very widespread. However, the general similarity between the alloy of the two coins makes me believe that both are in fact genuine and that you have made a remarkable find. I know that you have no intention of selling the coin, but you may still want to have it authenticated to preserve it. You should also leave a detailed statement about the location and date of the find along with the pictures of the XRF tests for your heirs. That way you will leave a well-documented historical asset for the future.

One final comment is in order. The value of having an XRF test of the coin BEFORE submission to a TPG is to document the alloy and authenticity before it is encapsulated. None of the fundamental scientific tests of a coin like this can be made AFTER encapsulation. So, it is time well spent to always weigh a coin accurately, determine its density and do the XRF test prior to having it "certified" by a TPG which only uses a visual inspection done in a few seconds.

That's not a totally awful piece, to be fair... and the design is probably more discernible with less close up pics. Good find.


It's an anonymous forum with a bunch of random people - who cares?

BTW, ever go on TreasureNet? There's also a detecting subforum here, though apparently not super active:
http://goccf.com/f/52
http://goccf.com/f/53

Anyway, anyone reasonably involved with Spanish Colonial and/or wreck material... and certainly also early copper people... understands the challenges of mitigating environmental damage. The only thing REALLY "controversial" is when that veers into into "tooling", reengraving - basically anything that essentially tries to restore/replace detail that is gone. Some putty/wax, etc. to fill in bad pits... some "smoothing" to mellow overly porous surfaces... retoning of acid-stripped to white silver (which has been done on A LOT of large wreck recoveries)... those are more shades of grey. A bit of sensible repair to make an obviously compromised piece slightly more aesthetic is not the most egregious crime in the world.



As I'm sure you know, when dealing with salvage finds, you have to figure out how much of the remaining detail in now intertwined in the corrosion. Particularly with coppers... there are pieces that look OK but if you try to strip it with acid, electrolysis or whatever and let it retone, you're left with a pitted mess with no relief/"look" left to it. Too "toasted", as they say. Sometimes best to just do a slight surface clean with soap,warm water and slight brushing/toothpicking, maybe some oil and call it a day.

NGC does do bulk wreck/hoard conservation, but I really wouldn't expect greatness out of them on a one-off delicate piece. I believe Sedwick (Spanish Colonial/wreck specialists) does conservation? Someone like that, where they are more attuned to what they are dealing with, might be a better bet.