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 Replies: 20 / Views: 2,061 |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
6244 Posts |
The doubling in the ear it is Hub Doubbling, so many Dies will have.
The markers depnd of the stage of the coin and also depend of the pairing of the Dies. Me I do not believe that an Doubbled Die must be just one Die used.
Sorry BRAND but the PCGS #146044 (SP) 67 show the ear doubling. What I do not understand it is the PCGS stop to show on the list the FS-103. Was delisted?
PS certifications which show ear doubbling:
82670147, 31956615, 29449246, 26596025, 26424931 and 31956614
Edited by silviosi
12/17/2023 7:03 pm
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Pillar of the Community
  United States
6526 Posts |
PCGS lists Die Varieties of FS-102, 104, 105, 106 for the main 1966 SMS 50c.
For whatever reason, PCGS lists a Major Variety of 1966 SMS 50c Doubled Die Obverse, which is FS-103.
PCGS does not appear to attribute FS-101.
(roams off to look at the certs posted by Silviosi)
Edited by Brandmeister
12/17/2023 7:45 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
6526 Posts |
All of those certs are for the FS-103 DDO variety. Was your point that every 103 shows the ear doubling because that specific die shows working hub doubling? Maybe it corresponds to Wexler WWHO-001 or -002? |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
6244 Posts |
No. Not all the FS-103 has this future, only what I mention. Me I see on PCGS more then 30 and only those had this future. And as I state, the ear was hub doubbling so can touch other DD's.
I answer about 103 because was your question.
FS-101 still be listed. But if changes come or some was delisted? I have to ask the guys.
Maybe Stevens if see this can answer. From when Stan past aways, I had no more contact with Fivaz, or maybe some of the FS become one part. Hard to say this. I had no idea about behind the scene activity.
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Moderator
 United States
96580 Posts |
Looks ok to me, nice find Brand.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
6526 Posts |
Quote:
Not all the FS-103 has this future, only what I mention. Me I see on PCGS more then 30 and only those had this future. And as I state, the ear was hub doubbling so can touch other DD's. Maybe I'm not quite understanding. All the FS-103 doubled die coins are from the same die (in theory). That one doubled die was made from a single working hub. So it's an all-or-nothing thing: either all the FS-103 coins should have the hub doubled ear, or none of them. Correct? I do understand that the WWHO and WSDO doubled hubs were used to make many working dies. Some of those working dies ended up as doubled dies beyond just the hub doubling. |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
6244 Posts |
In that period was not only one working hub as per majority perceptions. Here it is the point you has some clouds.
Second: not neccesary all the doublied dies coins come from same Die. This was in time, and do not forgot that the SMs 65, 66 and 67 was from normal Dies. In that period was a rush for production and recovery. Very few MSM 65 was strike in 65. 66 production was till mid 67. What was with the SMS was repolish the Dies and special polish of the planchet.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
819 Posts |
Thanks Brand, I do not usually do errors. But checked both of my 66 sms and both are DDO. Thanks again chip |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
6526 Posts |
Well, we've certainly chewed $5 worth of knowledge out of this coin. But the real question—is it possible to attribute it to a specific VV-DDO or a CPG FS-10# listing?
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Valued Member
United States
311 Posts |
The real answer is yes! Your half dollar is the 66 SMS DDO-013, and FS-50-1966-103 (13.8). The doubling on the hair strands under the B in LIBERTY in your photo is proof. The only half dollar (1966 SMS) with that doubling on those hair strands in the CONECA Master Listing is the DDO-013, FS-103.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
74442 Posts |
Nice find!  Errers and Varietys.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
6526 Posts |
Quote:
The real answer is yes! Your half dollar is the 66 SMS DDO-013, and FS-50-1966-103 (13.8). The doubling on the hair strands under the B in LIBERTY in your photo is proof. The only half dollar (1966 SMS) with that doubling on those hair strands in the CONECA Master Listing is the DDO-013, FS-103. Well, that's pretty exciting. =) Thanks especially to atrox and Silviosi for the help. I definitely learned a lot on this coin, and it was a really satisfying treasure hunt. There are a few final questions that I had on this coin: 1. Is the sense that this coin lacks the 103 markers because it is an earlier die state? Because my nascent photography is terrible? Or perhaps this is a later die state that has been re-polished to continue striking SMS halves for mint sets? 2. I probably won't slab. But I suppose it's worth asking the question on whether or not it would be a good idea for this particular coin. 3. Atrox, can I ask how you take such great photos? Your detail shots are phenomenal. |
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Valued Member
United States
311 Posts |
Brandmeister: When I said there was only one SMS with the doubling on the hair strands under the B, I was wrong about that. After you said there was no markers on your half that matched FS-103, DDO-013, I took a look again at the 66 SMS's. I see there are 8 of them. I was looking at the wrong angle. This time I see there are two SMS's where the doubling is very similar, DDO-013 FS103, and DDO-020, FS-106, and with your photos. You can see the IN is different, I think your half looks more like the DDO-020, FS-106, not the DDO-013 FS-103. Attached are some photos of the two IN's DDO-013 and DDO-020, also some photos of markers, stage A or B from the DDO-020, die scratches and short die gouges around the T of LBERTY and small die gouge under left of W in WE.       Edited by atrox001
12/19/2023 6:33 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
6526 Posts |
Yeah, when you wrote that, I went back and checked Variety Vista, because I remembered multiple listings with doubled hair. In fact, some listings are primarily just doubled lips, ear, hair. I assumed what you meant was more along the lines of "the only one with doubled hair under the B with this particular set of IGWT doubling".
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Pillar of the Community
United States
6526 Posts |
btw, I did think that FS-106 could be a match. What steered me away from it was that the doubling on the E is much less extreme on both the VV and PCGS examples. With no markers listed, I am not sure how to confirm or refute that particular variety. tbh, I also found it somewhat confusing that the early die state does not show splits on the L corner, but then the middle die state shows a clear separation on the flourish. Odd that it would materialize as the die state degrades, unless the EDS example is a poor strike. I have been really hesitant to read anything into the 1966 numbers themselves, just because we know there is hub and series doubling in play on these Kennedy halves. |
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Posted 12/17/2023 7:43 pm
