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Replies: 21 / Views: 1,428 |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
94367 Posts |
Clear evidence of PVC sheets, which need to be replaced!
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New Member
 United States
8 Posts |
The binders where laying flat. Three large heavy ones on top of each other. I looked at them a few time times over the last 30 years. I just opened a 2x2 that think was near the bottom. The inside of film is not sticky nor is the coin. I'm thinking a comprise solution is to change the pages, delicately wipe the outside of the film with a damp solvent cloth. The goo doesn't seem the be on all the coins film, probable because of the weight distribution. I had the foreign albums upright so although the pages are sticky the 2x2s seem ok. So I think the most damaging issue is with the album or albums that were under the most weight. I can deal with that. I really appreciate your detailed discussion.
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Moderator
 Australia
16804 Posts |
Quote: delicately wipe the outside of the film with a damp solvent cloth. Do not use acetone for that purpose - acetone will likely depolymerize whatever plastic they've used for the 2x2 film, making the stickiness worse if not destroying and dissolving the plastic completely. I also don't think it would help much to remove the stickiness, since the plasticizer in the goo would have embedded itself into the film, altering the structure physically and chemically to cause the stickiness. Feel free to try it, perhaps with some of those alcohol wipes we've all got sitting around from the pandemic. But I wouldn't expect to see much improvement.
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
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New Member
Canada
24 Posts |
To LibraryGuy44 regarding the top tab pages and where to write the information, I have started using such pages and use Avery 3/8" x 5/8" labels and stick them above the coin on the front of the page. The only concern that I have with that method is whether the labels will eventually peel off? Not sure, but after 6 months they are still nicely stuck.
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New Member
 United States
8 Posts |
I thought about it this morning and it sounded a little ridicules and risky. You confirmed it. I'm just going to change out the 2x2 as needed.
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New Member
Canada
24 Posts |
Here is an example of a page with the Avery labels. Only concern now is that I have started using the Uncle Paul pages from Amazon. These pages are identified as "non-toxic PVC" safe for coins. So I'm not sure if I am going from one bad situation to another bad situation years down the road. 
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Moderator
 United States
56855 Posts |
Isn't all PVC bad for coins? John1 
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New Member
Canada
24 Posts |
I guess that is my question. What is meant by "non-toxic PVC"? So far I have only been able to find 2 manufacturers/distributors of these type of pages and both are listed as PVC. Are there others that don't require 2x2s?
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New Member
 United States
8 Posts |
PMCoin
Interesting idea. You have some nice coins. Thanks
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Moderator
 United States
56855 Posts |
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New Member
Canada
24 Posts |
Thanks John1. However, your link is for 2x2s and as both LibraryGuy44 and I have stated, we want to get away from the 2x2 flips and go with the top tab type pages that come in a variety of sizes, up to 42 coins per page. These appear to be only available in some sort of PVC. Uncle Paul's in "non-toxic PVC" and an Australian make that identifies them as PVC requiring replacement every 5 years. If someone has a recommendation of non 2x2 pages, that is what I am looking for.
In my case it is the 2x2 flips from approx. 30 years ago that have caused the problem in the first place, so I really want to avoid that route again.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2213 Posts |
Edited by livingwater 01/12/2024 2:42 pm
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New Member
Canada
24 Posts |
Thank you livingwater. These do look interesting.
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Moderator
 Australia
16804 Posts |
Quote: These pages are identified as "non-toxic PVC" safe for coins. So I'm not sure if I am going from one bad situation to another bad situation years down the road.
Isn't all PVC bad for coins? John1
I guess that is my question. What is meant by "non-toxic PVC"? So far I have only been able to find 2 manufacturers/distributors of these type of pages and both are listed as PVC. Are there others that don't require 2x2s?"Non-toxic" sounds like marketing spiel; of course it's "non-toxic" in the sense that it's not poisonous and won't kill you if you eat it. The "toxicity" of a plastic has nothing to do with whether or not that plastic is actually "safe for coins". "Acid-free" would be a more meaningful and useful adjective, but also an adjective that could be proven or disproven in court. As for your and John's question: yes, it is theoretically possible for "coin-safe PVC" to exist. That's because it is not the PVC itself that harms coins, it's the plasticizers they add to the PVC. PVC, in its "raw" state, is a hard brittle solid that is not very transparent - quite "safe for coins" in this state, but quite useless if the goal is to actually take the coins in and out of the album page, and to see the coins inside the album. To make PVC soft and transparent, they need to add plasticizer. The plasticizer they usually add is a phthalate diester (diisodeyl phthalate is common, though there are others). These phthalates are liquids, and they slowly leach out of the plastic as the plastic ages. Phthalates themselves are also harmless to coins, but to make phthalates, you need to add concentrated sulfuric acid, and some of this acid remains dissolved in the phthalates afterwards and gets added to the PVC mixture with the phthalates. It is that sulfuric acid which damages coins, as the sulfuric acid travels with the phthalates as they escape the PVC. In theory, you can use something else besides phthalates as a plasticizer - something that doesn't have any acid in it. Phthalates are used for the same reason PVC itself is used: it's the cheapest option. "Acid-free PVC coin pages" thus can exist, but they will be considerably more expensive than regular PVC pages. It would probably be cheaper for a coin album manufacturer to avoid PVC and use another plastic altogether. That way they could honestly claim their pages are "PVC-free". In terms of sourcing album pages to fit a 2x2, may I suggest trying a photographic supplies store. Old-style photographic slides are also 2 inches by 2 inches, so a slide album page also makes a perfect coin album page. And photography hobbyists have always been wary of anything that contains plasticizers, because if solvent transfer happens to a photographic slide or a negative, the slide is ruined forever. So slide album pages are almost always made from high-quality plasticizer-free plastic. The people who make these pages also know that photographic slides are a dying hobby and are keen to expand their business into numismatics. I've always used PrintFile brand slide pages to house my 2x2s.
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
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New Member
Canada
24 Posts |
I guess that since all 3 suggestions regarding recommended pages to use all require either 2x2s or 1.5x1.5s, the request for recommendations of suitable pages not requiring any flips just cannot return any results. So for now I will stick with the Uncle Paul pages and keep an eye on the coins over the next few years. After all, any potential problems cannot be as bad as that caused by the 2x2s that I bought 30 years ago.
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Replies: 21 / Views: 1,428 |
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