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 Replies: 19 / Views: 1,894 |
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Pillar of the Community
Portugal
674 Posts |
What goes up will come down  Patience. Never had seen one with a female head like that. Congratulations it is unusual. I have an old roman As with Janus, bought many years ago. Smaller one after the monetary reform. Thought those were common? So worn I never photographed it. And a Furia family denarius. Worn also. Used to be easy to find for sale. |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
12057 Posts |
It's becoming difficult to find bargains in the ancients market, at least on ebay. Common LRB's in poor to average shape are going for 3-5 or more times what they used to; the same for common provincial AE types of Hadrian, Trajan, Commodus, et al. Even beat-up, damaged AR denarii from Antoninus Pius, Commodus, Faustina... anyone, really, are selling for well over $30-$40 each quite often, when that used to be what you'd pay for a group of 2 or 3 examples. Random small Greek AE coins are at $20 or more per coin. Member ANA - EAC - TNA - SSDC - CCT #890 "Most of the things worth doing in the world had been declared impossible before they were done." -- Louis D. Brandeis |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2246 Posts |
Great looking coin! I have three coins from Rhegium, one similar to yours but poor condition, 27mm, 7.53grams, SNG Cop 1971. In my opinion prices for both ancient coins and modern coins have risen, especially higher grade ancients and higher grade modern coins. Gold spot prices have risen from about $1,200 to $2,050 in ten years making gold coins cost more. With inflation seems like everything costs more.  Edited by livingwater
02/07/2024 11:19 pm
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Valued Member
 United States
319 Posts |
Quote:
What goes up will come down Patience. I will do my best to wait it out, jecz79...but it ain't gonna be easy! Quote:It's becoming difficult to find bargains in the ancients market, at least on ebay. From what I've seen, paralyse, rising prices aren't confined to ebay. So I foresee a lot of hand-wringing in my future. Passing on coins I would normally go for. C'est la vie! Quote:
In my opinion prices for both ancient coins and modern coins have risen, especially higher grade ancients Indeed, livingwater. Which is tough for me because 'higher grade' is part of my focus. I'm glad to see your coin has a female Janus. It's a fascinating aspect. in spite of the rugged condition...it's a great coin! Here's a question: If Janus is the name given to a "male" god of the Roman pantheon...is there a female equivalent in the Greek pantheon (that inspired the depiction on this OP coin)?I pose this question as it popped into my head. With no background knowlege. Out of sheer curiousity. |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
12057 Posts |
AFAIK Janus is one of the few Roman gods that has no equivalent in the Greek pantheon.
Cicero refers to Janus in "De natura deorum" as "the leader in a sacrifice" and posits a (folk) etymological derivation from the Latin infinitive "ire" (to go) as being the reason Janus is associated with doors, gates, and so on. This is later conflated with existing mythology by P. Nigidius Figulus, who ascribed to Janus and a supposed "Jana" aspects of Sol and Luna; Macrobius interprets these two to position Janus as a twin brother to "Jana", i.e. a supposed *Dianus to Diana, by which he equates Janus as Apollo to Diana as Artemis.
It's a folk etymology that relies on supposing that *Iana was an original spelling of Diana - a rewriting of the initial "I" sound of "Iana" as "Di", pronounced with the initial "D" sound somewhat muted. This process in turn yields *Dianus for Ianus (=Janus.)
This non-syllabic pronunciation of the Greco-Latin prefix "di" was already present in Latin when followed by a stressed vowel-fronted syllable. Latin "diabolus" (devil) was originally divided as di-'ab-o-lus - with four syllables - but pronounced more like two or three: di'a-bo-lus or even *di'a-blus - a phonetic change preserved in some Romance languages (cf. Italian di'a-bolo, Spanish di'a-blo.)
For words where the "di" prefix was not originally from Greek, or if the first syllable was stressed, that change did not always occur. Latin 'di-em -> Spanish dí-a, preserving both syllables; but Latin di-'urn-us / Latin di'ur-no -> Italian 'giorno.
Member ANA - EAC - TNA - SSDC - CCT #890 "Most of the things worth doing in the world had been declared impossible before they were done." -- Louis D. Brandeis Edited by paralyse
02/08/2024 8:01 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4971 Posts |
Nice looking Janiform coin circusmax! She really looks like the Liberty personifications on the turn of the century US Liberty nickels. Plus a cool Asklepios, I'm a fan of that guy. Here a Janiform of mine...very dude and crude compared to your style.  Roman Republic, c. 169 - 158 BC Obverse: Laureate bust of Janus. Reverse: ROMA|I|A.CAE, prow r. Reference: Crawford 174/1. Ex. RBW, purchased from R. Schaefer 12/10/1993; 33 mm, 31.7g |
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Valued Member
United States
319 Posts |
Awesome deep-dive, paralyse! There is a great deal of overlap regarding these deities. I did read (in my brief attempt at research) about a variety of hypotheses, including the aforementioned connection to Apollo. Also a comparison to the two-faced dog Orthus (brother of Cerberus), and the Etruscan deity Culsans. All of these proposed ideas are, alas, male. Preserving the mysterious identity of the female deity depicted on this coinage.
Excellent coin, chrsmat71! Your janiform might indeed be a "crude dude", but it is impressive nonetheless. Especially the size (33mm)! With all that space (relatively speaking), it's a shame the engraver didn't opt for a more realistic style. As soon as my time machine is perfected, I'll go back and have a chat with him.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1120 Posts |
Very nice example. I do not collect Greek coinage, but stylistically, they are very elegant compared to that of a Roman. I agree; the prices are becoming a bit ridiculous. I am not finding bargains like I used to, even on ebay. Coins are selling for double or even triple than just a year or two ago. Therefore, I am not buying hardly anything at the moment. The only collectors who should be overpaying are newbies - of course, we have all made those mistakes when first starting. Here is my example - paid about $40 - about 5 years ago Roman Republic, AE As Sextus Pompey As, minted in Spain or Sicily between 46 and 43 BC OBV: Head of Janus, bearing the features of Pompey Magnus (The Great) REV: Prow of Galley Notes: A general of the Roman Republic, Sextus Pompey was the final opposition to the Second Triumvirate. He witnessed his defeated father's murder during the civil wars of the First Triumvirate. He fought against Julius Caesar up until his assassination and continued to oppose his heir Octavian and Marc Antony until he was finally defeated for good at the Battle of Naulochus and escaped to what is now Turkey. He was recognized and capture in Miletus in 35 BC and executed by order of Antony. The remaining Triumvirs could now focus on the rivalry between each other, of which Octavian would be victor and become Emperor.  Edited by travelcoin
02/09/2024 2:18 pm
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Valued Member
United States
319 Posts |
Awessssome specimen, travelcoin! That portrait is deeep with symbolic meaning for that point in Roman history. Sextus Pompey as Janus. Wowww! Seeing the Roman past...and visualizing Rome's future. Political propaganda at its level best! Quote:
Here is my example - paid about $40 - about 5 years ago Forty dollars, you say. For that kind of history? I'd say that is thievery of the highest order. Constable...arrest that man! |
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Pillar of the Community
 United Kingdom
1168 Posts |
Quote:
It appears to me that coin prices have expanded...thus shrinking my wallet. Has anyone else noticed this? I sure have, Mike. The prices of many ancients have risen over the past couple of years, and any coin sporting an animal theme has risen quite dramatically. Unfortunately I don't have a decent Janiform coin as yet, but I've seen a couple of coins from Lampsakos with female Janiform heads. However no deity name was given. A very nice coin BTW  , and an interesting write-up.  Edited by Novicius
02/09/2024 7:01 pm
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
11898 Posts |
Two Janiforms, one Greek and one Roman ISLANDS off TROAS, Tenedos. Circa 100-70 BC. AR Tetradrachm (37.5mm, 15.44 g, 12h). Janiform head of a bearded male left, laureate, and female right, wearing stephanos / Labrys; TENEΔIΩN above, cornucopia and grape bunch on vine flanking handle; all within wreath.   Anonymous. Ca. 225-214/2 BC. AR didrachm or quadrigatus (22mm, 6.63 gm, 6h). Die shift. Uncertain mint. Laureate head of youthful Janus, two small annulets on top of head / Jupiter, hurling thunderbolt with right hand, scepter in left, in fast quadriga right driven by Winged Victory; ROMA incuse on raised tablet below. Crawford 29/3. Sydenham 64.   IN NECESSARIIS UNITAS - IN DUBIIS LIBERTAS - IN OMNIBUS CARITAS THE MAN IN THE ARENA, Theodore Roosevelt at the Sorbonne Paris on April 23, 1910: " It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." My coin website: https://fairfaxcoins.com |
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Valued Member
United States
319 Posts |
Quote:
I've seen a couple of coins from Lampsakos with female Janiform heads. However no deity name was given. So true, Jim. Greek artisans produced some truly stunning portraits. Clearly evidenced by the examples provided by numismatic student in the above response-post. Can you choose a more apt depiction of 'duality' than a male and female Janic portrait? Brilliant! |
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Valued Member
France
330 Posts |
Much more modest than the beautiful Tetradrachm from Tenedos, here is a drachm from Tenedos (5rd - 4th centuries BC) and a tetrobol from Lampsakos (4th - 3rd centuries BC)   |
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Valued Member
France
330 Posts |
And the reverse  |
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Valued Member
United States
319 Posts |
Absolutely beeeeautiful! The portraits are awesome! Very easy to see why these coins fetch the prices they do. Thank you for the contribution, ancient67!
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Replies: 19 / Views: 1,894 |
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Posted 02/07/2024 11:00 pm
