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Pillar of the Community
 United States
1502 Posts |
Quote:
That's a bold statement considering this is a relatively small issue! Gotcha! I don't live in the TPGs can do no wrong world. Small issues actually matter to me. At $50(+/-) a crack all TPGs should be dead on accurate, and more importantly, absolutely consistent. They should provide specific proof points for a call like this. If they did we might not be having this conversation. So until they do, I'll confidently state my opinion once again, TPGs are just a drain on coin collecting. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5681 Posts |
That looks like original color to me, but that's a hard call from photos alone since it's trivial to adjust color and brightness. If you send it back for reconsideration, I would probably crack it out as a new submission.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
9796 Posts |
 with Zurie. It looks pretty darn original to my eyes. "Buy the Book Before You Buy the Coin" - Aaron R. Feldman - "And read it" - Me 2013! ANA Life Member #3288 in good standing since 1981, ANS, Early American Coppers Member (EAC), Colonial Coin Collectors Club member (C4), Conder Token Collector Club member (CTCC), Civil War Token Society (CWTS) member, Liberty Seated Collectors Club (LSCC) & Numismatic Bibliomania Society member (NBS), USMex, Member in good standing, 2¢ variety collector. See my want page: http://goccf.com/t/140440 |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
74906 Posts |
Questionable color my butt!  Looks original to me. It seems fine. Errers and Varietys.
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Pillar of the Community
 Canada
5404 Posts |
How much more original do those young pencil heads
want it to be?
Send me ten like that , name your price .
The coin grading services are not all they
are cracked (out) up to be .
Back in the late 1980s early 1990s one of the
most recognizable sounds in the setup hours of
a coin show .. the unmistakable loud crack of plastic!
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
10601 Posts |
I was wondering before if CAC lured the experienced professional graders away from PCGS and they had to replenish their graders with newbies! Frequent complaints coming from PCGS graded coins lately.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
5404 Posts |
My current rating based on
Lots of recent submissions
1 ANACS
2 CACG
3NGC
Out to lunch PCGS
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Valued Member
 United States
56 Posts |
Quote:
My current rating based on
Lots of recent submissions
1 ANACS
2 CACG
3NGC
Out to lunch PCGS Pacificoin: I assume that your ratings are based on accuracy of the grade (as they should be) but I believe, deserved or not, that PCGS graded coins carry a premium in the minds of most buyers. That premium may disappear as the PCGS reputation tarnishes. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3848 Posts |
Quote:
At $50(+/-) a crack all TPGs should be dead on accurate, and more importantly, absolutely consistent. They should provide specific proof points for a call like this. If they did we might not be having this conversation. You must realize the TPGs are run by human beings and not robot AI takeovers. Secondly, grading is an art form based on centralized opinions that strive to be at least a little consistent across the board. But they are still opinions. There is no such thing as 100% accuracy in art. If you would like them to provide specific points of what they think of each coin, you can total your submission to be at least $200+ a coin. The graders have 30 seconds to grade each coin, and to add the duty of a handwritten list, that adds significant time. I am not a plastic collector by any means, most of my collection is raw, but you must understand the reality and facts of the scenario. Quote:
I assume that your ratings are based on accuracy of the grade (as they should be) but I believe, deserved or not, that PCGS graded coins carry a premium in the minds of most buyers. That premium may disappear as the PCGS reputation tarnishes. PCGS holds greater reputability in the marketplace, more than NGC and CACG. Their reputation will not be tarnished anytime soon. Think about the big boys. There are multimillion dollar coins in holders. This thread is like buying one silver ounce and expecting the spot price to change. The world is much larger than a single Indian Head cent, and the wholesale and retail markets of the coin industry are very developed and massive in size. OP - The coin appears to possibly have natural color, but if PCGS called it QC from the get-go I would not put any more money into the coin. They look for specific qualities to QC and are very strict on the color of Indian Head cents. At the most I would send to NGC, they are a little more lenient on the color of cents. Suffering from bust half fever. Want to learn how to attribute early half dollars by die variety? Click Here: http://goccf.com/t/434955Shoot me a PM if you are looking to sell bust halves. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1662 Posts |
May I ask how you had it stored? Flip, capsule, or ?
Looks straight MS to me.
Edited by ArrowsAndRays
08/12/2025 3:07 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
9796 Posts |
I called it that PCGS was going downhill, when they let David Hall go entirely. It would not bode well for them. I've been seeing some very questionable details coins and grades in general over the past couple of years. It will take some time before the perception of a more valuable price because it's in a PCGS holder. Buy the coin forget the holder these days. Howerver, one caveat is, their guarantee on authenticity is a good thing and a must on certain very heavily counterfeited coins. EDIT: Well I guess it was a "bit" longer than a couple of years ago I made that prediction... https://goccf.com/t/329125#2810488"Buy the Book Before You Buy the Coin" - Aaron R. Feldman - "And read it" - Me 2013! ANA Life Member #3288 in good standing since 1981, ANS, Early American Coppers Member (EAC), Colonial Coin Collectors Club member (C4), Conder Token Collector Club member (CTCC), Civil War Token Society (CWTS) member, Liberty Seated Collectors Club (LSCC) & Numismatic Bibliomania Society member (NBS), USMex, Member in good standing, 2¢ variety collector. See my want page: http://goccf.com/t/140440Edited by westcoin
08/12/2025 5:53 pm
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Valued Member
United States
56 Posts |
Quote:
May I ask how you had it stored? Flip, capsule, or ? ArrowsAndRays: I don't remember what the coin was in when I purchased it in the mid-1980's but I do recall that, about that time, the warnings were coming out about the harmful effect of PVC flips. I changed any coins that were in PVC flips over to 2x2 flips with mylar film at that time. Since then, all my raw coins have been held in the cardboard/mylar flips and all of those flips were held in a glass, 2 gallon, sun-tea brewing jar with a rubber sealed glass top. The jar resided in a safe when I wasn't tending to my collection. |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
11899 Posts |
Color looks beautiful. Obv 64, rev 67. Net 65+ full red.
IN NECESSARIIS UNITAS - IN DUBIIS LIBERTAS - IN OMNIBUS CARITAS THE MAN IN THE ARENA, Theodore Roosevelt at the Sorbonne Paris on April 23, 1910: " It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." My coin website: https://fairfaxcoins.com |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
18706 Posts |
and this is the reason I dont waste $$ slabbing. in fact I'm willing to bet that over the next several years AI App's are going to be good enough to accurately grade a coin every bit as good as a TPG basically eliminating them. PCGS is only holding on at this point due to their past reputation but that can change as they continue to grade coins like this. i do agree with NS that the obv is a little lower. probably 64. when posting slabs pleas note if any of the marks or scratches are on the holder. the one on the top of the obv is obviously on the holder but I'm not sure about the one across the feathers above liberty. there is some blotchy toning on the obv especially around the date. maybe the grader saw that as the surfaces being altered.  but if that was the case you would see that in other areas. it would probably come back as MS64RD due to the obv based on your photos |
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Moderator
United States
189673 Posts |
Some replies were edited to add Quote tags... [quote][/quote] or [Please use them in the future.  |
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Posted 08/11/2025 8:07 pm
