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Pillar of the Community
United States
2738 Posts |
Yes, you've got it. The same phenomenon occurs when ANY thin piece of metal is trapped between the die and a planchet and then that piece of metal moves out of position and is struck again. So, in addition to disloged die caps, normally-oriented incuse design elements form in association with split-after-strike lamination flakes, split-before-strike lamination flakes that are struck at least twice (both strikes uniface), layers of "sintered" copper, split-after-strike clad layers, split-before-strike clad layers that are struck at least twice, thin split-before-strike planchets that are struck at least twice, etc., etc. By the way, while shifted cap strikes are uncommon, they cannot be considered rare. I have probably ten in my collection and have sold off perhaps half-a-dozen. I usually pick them up on ebay for around $50, where they are almost invariably mislabeled. The clarity, completeness, and degree of separation from the normal design varies enormously. The auction coin under discussion is a rather nice example. Error coin writer and researcher.
Edited by mikediamond
10/25/2009 12:00 pm
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Rest in Peace
United States
1943 Posts |
Interesting, how common is this when it is this dramatic? I have never seen one this pronounced before.
I see you answered my question as I was asking it. Thanks again Mike.
Edited by pyrbob
10/25/2009 12:08 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5622 Posts |
pyrbob
I wish to take a moment to thank you for the 'in depth explanation", I am not an expert and I know others here are.
I was simply looking for the 'layman's terms" in which this happened, I am also thankful to you Mike, for taking the time, not for me, obviously, like I was thinking you as an expert would want to share your obvious knowledge, but no, until someone else gave assistance, then, and only then you decided to give more than a simple answer to explain. I look to experts for their opinions to assist me( as I am sure others do also ) also to help in educating this forums members, again, thanks to ALL who assisted in the explanation needed, Mike...
I have the utmost respect for knowledge, and those who have it and simply thought this would be the place( forum ) to get all the explanations possible, obviously there are many experts here, some not as obvious as others, be well, Mike
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4212 Posts |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
610 Posts |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5622 Posts |
With all due respect, and none taken from others, let's hear it for "pyrbob"
Who, with his "20-line, expert opinion answer", in layman's terms, said it all,Bob, Thanks again!! ps: Mike, I appreciate your input also....
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New Member
United States
7 Posts |
One should not jump to conclusions with coin errors before researching it a bit? I have seen some errors which seem to defy explanation, yet they are perfectly legitimate errors and not fraudulent. Though I must say that it is a black mark on the numismatic hobby when we do see these criminals defrauding collectors. The technology has come a long way in detecting fraudulent coins nowadays, then again the "fraudsters" especially out of some of the foreign countries have gotten quite adept at producing these fakes as well?
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2669 Posts |
Quote:
like I was thinking you as an expert would want to share your obvious knowledge, but no, until someone else gave assistance, then, and only then you decided to give more than a simple answer to explain. Nobody can provide an answer when they don't know what the question is. Mike D was able to reply to pyrbob and expand on his thought process working through the chain of events because pyrbob gave him something to go on - a clue where some confusion may come in, expanding on his post, or just clarifying something. Mike D could not respond any better than he already had to you, morgans dad, because you didn't ask the right question(s). Quote:
Or I would like to see that Obverse die with 2-heads Either the previous answer(s) were not read, or they were not understood. Just saying "I still don't get it" and demanding a better answer isn't going to let him know where in the process of point A (die cap) to point B (coin with 2 impressions) the confusion is coming in. He's also not going to sit here and play 20 questions to pull that answer out of someone. A simple question like "ok, what's a die cap?" or "I know what a die cap is, but if it's covering the die, how could it end up affecting the coin this way?" and he would have known where along the chain of events someone got lost, and where to start to explain. Take Kloccwork's question - Mike was able to answer and expand on his original explanation because he understood where the confusion was. Our experts have a lot of talents.. but I don't think mind-reading is one of them. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5622 Posts |
Dear xshift, I really do not think you are in order to come down on me as a member, when you, I feel do not understand the bottom line, Also I think Mike is a responsible adult, able to answer for him self.
I also feel I was not nor will not expect any one to be a mind reader, you assume alot, simply put, I was looking for "an expert" to explain how this could happen,one of the reasons I like this forum, if you need assistance, ask the experts, if you re-read my post that is simply what I asked for, please do not give me your 2-cents when you do not understand my original question or statements.
I mean no dis-respect to any one who is going to treat me as they would like to be treated, if you look at ALL the posts you would find, I asked, got a very short kind of, I was a bother (answer), but here is a 1-2 sentence answer, I asked again and was given an 'experts" bottom line statement of 2-lines ending with " I don't know how I can be any clearer."
Then another member asks a similar question( I feel any one could see I was looking for the explanation given to another member)and received a 9-line answer, this is all I was looking for.In case you did not see the last line in one of my posts, " could anyone please explain, in more depth, Thanks , Mike " Does this question seem that I was looking for some one to be a mind reader?
While I do my best to help others and assist any one in any way I can, that is all I was thinking one of the resident "experts" was going to do. I also am not sure why you, have chosen your self to explain the actions of another member, you must be a very good mind reader to know why and for what reasons we say what we do!!
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2669 Posts |
I think we all know I wasn't trying to speak for Mike D. He's definitely a big boy who can take care of himself.
I speak for myself, as always - because to me, it was obvious where the difficulty was coming in. Just like it was obvious to me that it hadn't occurred to you. I hoped, in pointing it out, that maybe it would be taken into consideration next time. Learning is a 2-way street - teacher/student - and the student has responsibilities as well. Either honestly think about what I wrote, or don't.
Since I was apparently too subtle in my last post, let me be clear: What I *was* 'coming down on you' for was your condescending and disrespectful words to someone who was trying to help. In the end, it doesn't matter what I think about your questions, and it doesn't matter if you think he was giving you a "you're a bother" answer - it was still uncalled for.
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Locked
822 Posts |
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Since I was apparently too subtle in my last post, let me be clear: What I *was* 'coming down on you' for was your condescending and disrespectful words to someone who was trying to help. I agree 100%. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5622 Posts |
To whom it may concern:
I am trying to understand why a topic I wrote in is being considered "condescending and disrespectful", I am looking for an answer from our other members who are "experts", while I know things written can sometimes be taken out of context, or misunderstood, I IMO, believe was only looking for the explanation given to another member, so for now my questions were answered, just not directed to me.
If there are some who feel the answers given were not problematic, or simply not clear to me, you would be right, I did not understand the answers given to me and hence the line in my post "could anyone please explain, in more depth, Thanks , Mike".
Where is the misunderstanding to others, I was not being "clear", how much more clear did I need to be, the question I asked was very to the point.
I do not feel I "demanded" anything from anyone, this is where things get out of control, all I was seeking is what another member, clearly understood and gave a very clear, concise, layman's terms answer to my question.
I obviously could not of been as unclear as some feel when another member answered exactly what I needed to know, I do not feel I was being rude, while I see others did feel that way,if anyone felt offended, that was/is not my intent, we are all entitled to our opinions, I do not think asking questions on a forum is being rude in any way, I do think that some people misunderstood my intent and "now" I am being considered and called" condescending and disrespectful", those are your words, and are entitled to your opinion,I too have a passion for Numismatics and will ask what I feel is needed to obtain more knowledge, I like most do not appreciate being talked down to, I do appreciate being treated like others would like to be treated.
The only thing "unique" about this forum, is the members as a whole, seeking the needed knowledge for the better of this hobby.
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
2189 Posts |
There were some extremely good explanation's on how this error came to be and I for one didn't really understand at first but as the thread progressed it made more sense.As far as everything else said,It's been said Now lets move on to the next great Error.The horse is dead Now quit beating him.
(side note)You're a Feisty bunch and nothing wrong with that
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
10045 Posts |
Quote:
I for one didn't really understand at first but as the thread progressed it made more sense.  The coin and explanation was very interesting!  Edited by DVCollector
11/03/2009 9:15 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5622 Posts |
Jasper62, Well said, How about those Yankees, I did not want to see the Yankees lose, but thought that it would be o k for the Phillie's to win and bring the World Series back to the Bronx for the Yankees to play to win with the support of ALL New York, in their own back yard.......  |
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Replies: 50 / Views: 5,383 |
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Posted 10/25/2009 11:56 am
