1742 Mexican 8R On Ebay - Question Of Authenticity.

Here is the full text of the seller's reply.




I did reply as follows:





I don't want to be thought of as being callous or overly suspicious of the reply, so I guess my conclusion at present is - "Let the buyer beware."

SwamperBob, once again you have been truly informative.
I noticed that it is still available.
Do you plan on purchasing?
If not and it may make an interesting pocket piece.

SwamperBob
Thanks for the advice.
The listing got pulled -
that is a much better resolution
It's worth the 'dancing banananana'

Thank you for this

jfransch That is a nice looking counterstamp and clearly NOT the modern Chinese type we are talking about. The puncheon on your coin is not outlined like the Chinese copy is.

I am not expert at authenticating this counterstamp - I have not examined enough originals but it looks good. I also like the way it is worn in - very believable.

I have personally purchased 8 Reales from all of these vendors and have been more than satisfied.

It is a good felling doing business with a reputable dealer with the assurance of authenticity.

We are approaching the final chapter in the saga of the 1742 Mo MF with the Portuguese c/s of 1834.

After numerous letters with Art regarding this and other coins he owns, he agreed to send the coin to me along with three other counterfeits for in person tests.

In person the 1742 actually looks rather convincing, Art's photos made some of the deficiencies show more on ebay than they do in person. His photos give the coin a low contrast washed out look NOT seen in person. If I saw this coin without my loupe under rushed conditions, I could easily be fooled.

The coin is made from an exceptionally well done set of transfer dies. The fields have been meticulously polished to remove MOST of the normal roughness seen on the fields of transfer dies. Many of the letters have also been polished expertly so that they look original. I did find a few with serious blemishes but those could be fixed on the die.

The Portuguese crown and shield counterstamp is NOT part of the die pair. It was copied and applied in a distinct step. This does make it much more believable.

The coin weighs 27.025 grams and has mint luster which allows a cartwheel effect when rotated. That luster was not apparent at all in the photos.

But the coin has a Specific Gravity of 10.01. That translates to a silver content which is only 726 fine.

So in this case SG is a perfect test to disclose a fraud even if the die work gets past your review - but if the forger had used a 903 fine planchet it would be hard to get anyone to believe me it is a fake.

The edge uses a very believable pattern which reverses (as it should) and the coin was edged pre-strike using some form of edger that produced 2 overlaps. HOWEVER, the overlaps are NOT exactly 180 degrees apart. They measures about 170 degrees apart and the overlaps are slightly different in length (2mm vs 4mm). So apparently the forger did not use a parallel two die edger.

The coin of course rings well and feels real. It is a VERY DANGEROUS copy. It would definitely sell well as an original in any venue that did not allow a detailed review (a flea market or a walk in client in a rush). If this was offered at say $100 I know many "greedy" individuals who would jump at the chance instead of looking closely. It will be trouble for many dealers.

The other three copies were all counterfeits made from transfer dies and the quality was far lower. They were however all silver. One was TOO heavy, one was TOO light and all three had SG's UNDER 10.07. The 1742 did not in my opinion come from the same die shop.


I am negotiating with Art to buy all 4. The 1742 should NOT go back on the market at any time, PERIOD. It is simply too dangerous.