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 Replies: 24 / Views: 4,399 |
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Valued Member
United States
499 Posts |
The effect to the dealer is just more paperwork. The effect to the individual on the other hand is that they must now worry about paying capital gains on anything they sell to the dealer. Now that windfall for the guy that finds a bunch of silver coin while roll searching will also be a windfall for the government as they get to tax everyting over face value on those transactions. That collection you inherited from grandpa when you were eight years old will now be heavily taxed if you cash it in in an emergency. The real impact in this case is not to the the business but to the individual, that is what makes this different then the previous enforcement of the issuing of 1099's. Richard |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3294 Posts |
I wouldnt worry too much about this. I anticipate compliance to be in the neighborhood of 0.1%
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Pillar of the Community
United States
573 Posts |
The report I saw on this law was that the gov't expected to collect an add'l $18 billion a year in taxes. Do you still think it won't affect you? Businesses don't pay taxes, they just pass the cost along to their customers, resulting in higher proces for us. Just another job-killing, economy-killing law by the buffoons in Washington.
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Valued Member
United States
397 Posts |
Kena - you, as an individual, purchasing something is not covered under this law.
Ziggy - nowhere will the difference between face and bullion value be reported. The guy who finds a bunch of silver coin and sells it to a dealer will receive a 1099 from said dealer. You, as an individual, may or may not owe taxes on the transaction - just like you do now.
nod2003 - don't count on that. The penalty for non-filing is currently $50 per instance. Most businesses have to go through an annual audit from an accounting firm - that firm will make sure the business does its 1099 reporting. Any coin dealer that is incorporated or public, or deals with bullion from the Mint, or has a loan at a bank will be required to have this audit. Go ask your local coin dealer who deals in bullion whether or not he has to have an annual financial audit from a CPA - see what he says.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7123 Posts |
This bill does affect the private citizen, If you sell 601.00 worth of coins to a dealer he is by law required to issue YOU a 1099 misc income form, you are then required to report that income on your tax return.
This law affects every person who may sell anything for more than 600 dollars, we are just coin collectors so we focus on coins, but the sold Item may very well be a car, a guitar or a pocket knife, it does not matter you will be required to report any amount gained over 600 dollars because the person you sold it to will or can be required to file a 1099 on your behalf with the government.
I worked as a sub contractor for close to 30 years of my life , all of my income was counted off of 1099 forms, its acumulative and adds to the rest of your income, you will be taxed on the transaction.
dealers will be required to keep records of all of your small sales and once they reach the magic 600 He will be required to issue the 1099 if those transactions fall within 1 year.
He will have added cost for book keeping, many will fail due to those costs.
take your coins to a pawn shop, if you lose them and the value is more than 600 expect to get a 1099 from the pawn shop, the reaches of this bill are really unknown as the language is non specific and unlimited in scope as usual.
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Valued Member
United States
397 Posts |
Metalman, yes the bill affects private citizens - I've never said otherwise. Private citizens will not be issuing 1099s to anyone - they would only receive one.
Receiving a 1099 is not necessarily a taxable event though. If you purchase something for $590 and turn around and sell it to a dealer for $610 - the dealer will issue a 1099 for $610. Any taxes you owe will be based on $20 - not $610. This is true even today though - although most people ignore it. Now the government will simply know about the transaction. I repeat, the tax burden on an individual will not change under the law. But now the government will know if you don't report it.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7123 Posts |
coins are valued by the government at face value, sell 25 morgans for 1000.00 your tax burden will be 975.00 taxed at whatever rate is the flavor of the day.
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Valued Member
United States
397 Posts |
Only if you buy the coin from the government. Otherwise use your receipt to show your cost.
No one selling a coin at auction owes taxes on the difference between face and what it sold for - just like with stock, they have an acquisition price and a disposal price, only the difference is taxed.
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Valued Member
United States
499 Posts |
that is true but I don't have a "receipt" for all those coins I received as tips when I was a paperboy, or the coins from Grandpa, so those coins are treated as face value and everyting above that is considered taxable profit. I don't have receipts for those coins I traded with other collectors either. The difference is that now the government will be informed about my transactions and be looking for their cut.
Richard
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Valued Member
United States
397 Posts |
It's always been a taxable event. Just now the government will know about it and be able to enforce the collection of the taxes that were always rightfully due. Right?
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
10284 Posts |
I could easily end up selling 600.00 plus to one person. If they want a 1099 with the purchase, they'll have to go buy somewhere else, otherwise I'll ignore it. The antique / consignment shop I have rented space in with coins will not be doing this either and it is a huge place. Makes me wonder what other surprises they stuffed in here. I don't think they (Gov't) know (yet) either.  |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7123 Posts |
If its always been a taxable event then why do they need this bill? The simple fact is assets are bought with taxed money, sales tax is a relatively new approach 1921 I believe was the first time it was used and that was within a state, not a tax by the federal government. Heck ever federal income tax with holding is not very old 1943 if memory serves. The 600 dollar rules has been around for quite a while in the casino's and lottery, and small business, it has never been pushed into the living rooms of every citizen of this country, this is unprecedented. The true scope of this bill cannot be known yet, but ebay and Internet sellers are the target there is no doubt about that. |
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
2448 Posts |
I posted this several months ago hoping the members of this forum would write their representatives. The coin dealer association mobilized and sent their letters off and have gotten some congressional support. Gang! The squeaky wheel get the grease! Write your letters, do you want coin dealers having your personal financial information on file just because you sell them $600 in coins; especially you folks that deal with several dealers a year. I don't, and that's what will happen, Drivers Licence, SSN, Passport Info....how far will it go? Write your representatives!
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
3692 Posts |
Yeah, but in a few years with inflation, $600 might be able to buy you a bar of soap.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
717 Posts |
The Beatles - Taxman
One, two, three, four...
Hrmm!
One, two, (one, two, three, four!)
Let me tell you how it will be;
There's one for you, nineteen for me.
'Cause I'm the Taxman,
Yeah, I'm the Taxman.
Should five per cent appear too small,
Be thankful I don't take it all.
'Cause I'm the Taxman,
Yeah, I'm the Taxman.
If you drive a car - I'll tax the street;
If you try to sit - I'll tax your seat;
If you get too cold - I'll tax the heat;
If you take a walk - I'll tax your feet.
Taxman!
'Cause I'm the Taxman,
Yeah, I'm the Taxman.
Don't ask me what I want it for, (ah-ah, Mister Wilson)
If you don't want to pay some more. (ah-ah, Mister Heath)
'Cause I'm the Taxman,
Yeah, I'm the Taxman.
Now my advice for those who die, (Taxman)
Declare the pennies on your eyes. (Taxman)
'Cause I'm the Taxman,
Yeah, I'm the Taxman.
And you're working for no one but me.
Taxman!
Edited by yechi7
09/06/2010 05:43 am
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Replies: 24 / Views: 4,399 |
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First Page
Posted 09/05/2010 09:02 am
