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Would You Share The Pup's You Know, Or Not...

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Author Previous TopicReplies: 23 / Views: 3,696Next Topic Page 2 of 2
Bedrock of the Community
United States
14454 Posts
 Posted 01/29/2011  1:18 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Bryan1315 to your friends list
I think the part about you have to give it away before you can claim it as your own was in reference to the original question. If you do not give away your knowledge and test it against others knowledge how do you know you are not just a fool who knows nothing but false beliefs. True knowledge will stand the tests of time and can be torn apart and be put back together and will always remain the same
Pillar of the Community
United States
5639 Posts
 Posted 01/29/2011  1:52 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Morgans Dad to your friends list
The Mighty OZ, (lol)

I have been reading your comments and see you have a better than good understanding of the ENTIRE Morgan VAM passion.

I ask you, why do you think, in your own opinion, is the top 100 pop list coins, are ALL the pup;s NOT listed, is this just an example of human error, is there just another simple reason, or is there ??

I would appreciate your apparent obvious experienced comments!!
Thanking you in advance, Mike......
Pillar of the Community
United States
709 Posts
 Posted 01/29/2011  4:31 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Ozland to your friends list
The two people who can best address your question are the Authors of The Top 100 Morgan dollar Varieties: The VAM keys by Jeff Oxman and Dr. Michael Fey.Ph.D

Pillar of the Community
United States
709 Posts
 Posted 01/29/2011  4:59 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Ozland to your friends list
Vamming by its very nature is a 'work in progress' that will always (to a certain degree) be incomplete.

The aspect you are alluding to is: Are all pick up points on all vams shown? In my experience, no.

Anytime you have a body of work that is being assembled, it is up to the people contributing to list what they are comfortable listing. Couple that with brighter than average IQs with competitive egocentric personalities and the obvious answer is not everything will be listed. There are people in the hobby who want for what ever their particular reason is, to maintain a competitive advantage. This doesn't mean these people are bad. This doesn't mean something is nefarious, it only means the contributors did not list everything they knew. Some of this view can be ascribed that not everything is going to be given to someone without effort on their part to learn. This is a powerful dynamic in this complex equation.

I think the thing to focus on is learning good methodology and sound vamming technique. At the same time also understand not all data on a body of work in progress is always accurate.

If you are going to have a mentor ship program, you need serious students willing to put forth an honest effort to learn. Absent this, many who have gained a lot of knowledge are reluctant to see it squandered by handing over that knowledge without effort on the part of students to learn.

With the advent of the Internet, as Marshall McLuhan once noted, the medium is the message. It is this ways with vams. As more and more Morgan and Peace dollars are codified, the Internet with its' instant access to data will rule the day.

As I stated earlier, this is a complex multifaceted issue that has many differing points of view with no one correct view.
Pillar of the Community
United States
5639 Posts
 Posted 01/30/2011  10:59 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Morgans Dad to your friends list
Wild Bill, I do appreciate your intent, it is an interesting post, one I have been thinking about for a while, I need to slow my thought process up at times and actually "smell the roses", while it is winter,with 30+ inches of snow over the last 3 storms, I might have to visit the arboretum, and enjoy the peaceful natural settings they present.......Thanks again, Mike
Pillar of the Community
United States
3076 Posts
 Posted 01/30/2011  11:47 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add aladinslamp to your friends list
Its all good Mike...as in any adventure many things look like there out to make a buck on any thing we undertake...that's surely/probably true, but in turn doesn't mean we have to partake..how we choose to partake is our own doing...
Valued Member
United States
155 Posts
 Posted 01/31/2011  12:43 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Timmy30 to your friends list
As a new collector I would have been screwed if each sight that I visited withheld information.
Luckily for me, this forum was the first that I happened across. The members here have been more
forthcoming with what they know than most other websites that I have visited. This forum has created a "community of
collectors" in the truest sense of the phrase. I myself am in the retail business and I can't understand why any
retailer, dealer, or seller would want to bolster the idea that the customer/collector knows less than they do.
This sentiment is why many customers (actually I can only speak for myself here) immediately feel at odds with the dealer
or seller. If I am put in a situation where I feel like I know less than the seller, generally as a rule, I walk away
unless I really want it
Pillar of the Community
United States
5639 Posts
 Posted 01/31/2011  12:53 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Morgans Dad to your friends list
Timmy, WELCOME to the family, I appreciate your commenting on this topic. What do you collect, I would tell you this forum has plenty of experienced, kind, willing to share knowledgeable people who assist others who ask and seek information in the Numismatic hobby, good luck, Mike...
Pillar of the Community
United States
3076 Posts
 Posted 01/31/2011  01:10 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add aladinslamp to your friends list
GLAD YOU POSTED....THE fundemental this is..there will always be a price difference like any product. it depends on where one is in the food chain.,..PRICE GUIDES are just that what you could expect as a norm to pay..This is true in any perspective of any product, THE DIFFERENCE is what one pays, as a common buyer, and NOW trying to sell....REDBOOK......SSSSSSORRY FOR CRYING OUTLOUD....DON"T EVEN think you can get that money...
Valued Member
United States
220 Posts
 Posted 02/01/2011  11:30 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add VAMsforMoney to your friends list
I would like to offer a perspective on this question.

I do a fair amount of research. I think I share the results of what I do, especially by publishing it and making it available to anyone who wants the info.

However, when I am faced with whether or not to update a particular page on a particular website that also caters to VAMs, I am faced with a dilemma.

The openness of the site I refer to allows it to have incorrect information posted. So I am faced with not only a large, very time consuming job of updating a particular date & m/m based on my work, but also the decision on whether to delete or eliminate the work of others that is incorrect.

Also, I recognize that anything I post, can be changed, overwritten, or otherwise eliminated on the whim of others. Not that it would be done maliciously, but even if it is done innocently, would be a waste of my time.

So what would you do?
Moderator
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United States
23522 Posts
 Posted 02/01/2011  11:45 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list

Quote:
So what would you do?


Do what I do. Whine incessantly about changing that place from a Wiki to a controlled environment.

And yeah, VAMsforMoney, you've already contributed more than your share. This is definitely a topic you have the right to express an opinion on.
Valued Member
United States
220 Posts
 Posted 02/01/2011  11:51 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add VAMsforMoney to your friends list
Dave, those of us who whine find ourselves visiting over here. Whine incessantly, and you may get booted from the other site.
Moderator
Learn More...
United States
23522 Posts
 Posted 02/02/2011  12:26 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list
I feel sort of irrelevant over there, even though for instance I did this week's " VAM of the Week." I don't have a lot of disposable income, nor the time to devote to concerted research. What I do with my spare time is search '78's and '21's on ebay (and a few others, if the truth be told) and most importantly concentrate on this place. I'll never be a senior VAMmer, but I was a senior Moderator before I ever heard of Coin Community. This is what works for me, and allows me to help VAMming.

They can do what they will over there; I'll fit in where I can. Freedom of speech will reign in this place, as long as you keep your brain engaged whilst expressing the right. Whine incessantly, and we'll make you go away too. It's a balancing act - the weight of the whine should be equaled by the weight of your solution to the problem.
Pillar of the Community
United States
5639 Posts
 Posted 02/02/2011  12:37 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Morgans Dad to your friends list
Actually one does not have to whine to have the topic locked or posting privileges suspended, all you have to do is comment on a topic that MIGHT not be discussed and received warmly, by some of the chosen few and most of all could possibly upset the presently accepted format which could drive the natives away.........IMO.
Pillar of the Community
United States
3076 Posts
 Posted 02/02/2011  02:06 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add aladinslamp to your friends list
"CHOICE" or our ideas..... Always comes from "knowledge" or our learning experience.....WHO IS TO SAY...your learning was crap? that you knowledge is unwerthy : "WHO CAN SAY THAT"?....Some have collected for over 40 years on this sight....In those many years we have seen many who have come to "say" they are the advocates to balance the grading systems...... "POOF" TPGS are born....even they wont agree on a grade......IT IS US who perish within there system.....even as they seem to do us a favor.....OR DO THEY?

there are many things now reconsidered......in today's grading systems
anything in plastic, from the last few years......will be AU......if re-holdered unless you have a paying name...will not be MS...its about keeping the high dollar prices the HIGH value...why accept old grandmas roll of MS 65's into the population.. it only devalues the market value. they think they know...
...

THE most important thing in collecting of any thing is to be be able to evaluate the true grade, of what you purchase...and to KNOW the today's grading standards
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