PMD Or PMDon't?

It's not my desire to start a new site or even change this one. I am newer as a member to this forum, but not new to the field. I imagine that this site is no different than any other meeting of interested parties. If you have one person with a valid question, and a dozen people without the answer jumping up and down to "guess", that doesn't help the person seeking information. That's my only point- why shout loudly, when one doesn't have an answer? Maybe I totally mis-interpreted the purpose of this forum, perhaps this is a giant guessing game. When I give an answer, I don't claim to be infallible, but my answers are solidly based upon experience, not opinion.

I made some " fake errors PMD " awhile back.

Copper nickle " improper annealed "
blueish nickle " improper alloy "
brass cent " improper alloy "
PMD clipped planchet
AT artifical toning

I was trying to see what PMD coins looked like by damaging them after they were minted to see if the same damage could happen during or before the minting process and they would look the same

I think I post them and most relized it was PMD I even posted they were PMD a few days later.

I got tired of seeing blotchey copper nickles or a bluish nickels people would find in circulation that were invloved in house fires or chemically altered then posted to find out " what kind of error it was "

It was a helpfull way for me to see what a real " improper annealed nickle " looks like verus one layed on a hotplate untill it discolored.

A far as broad strikes, Doubleddies, off centers, railroad coins. People who know what to look for can indentify them eazy and tell what is or is not PMD. When someone knows how coins are made its eazt to tell what is or is not PMD .

My self I am uncertian alot of times. I see clipped planchets and tried to recreate one. I am sure others with a machine shop with better tools can prob make a good fake . BUt the experts can tell by the strike on the coin weakness in areas if it was true clipped planchet or PMD.

Now spotting " fake counterfiet errors" like the recent china ones man that a whole nothr field

N

Coop- your photos and posts are are an incredible wealth for this forum. A lot can be learned from your images. Thanks!

Umm, yeah...I agree completely.

I borrow them from different forum just for an occasion like this! Believe it or not, I have some that I've never posted yet that the subject hadn't come up yet.

What I was trying to say is I made some " errors " on purpose and posted them to see the responses wether people would agree and comment on them as PMD or a real mint error.

I wanted to see who would " jump in and comment " and if anyone was fooled by a " fake error " and thought it was legit.

I thought this thread was about " commenting PMD on coins or a real error and people responses or would they just guess "

I thought that was the OP statement about people taking guesses and commenting .

I was just saying I did a exp awhile back with fake errors to see if anyone was fooled and if they were they could learn what a fake error looked like and we could all learn what PMD coins looked like

And I would hope that my rather strong passion and opinion for keeping my mouth shut unless I KNOW the answer doesn't come across as me being anything but passionate for what I do. I have nothing personal against anyone here - I just never read the book on sugar coating responses. I simply "tell it like it is". Once people get to know me and how I respond, they are fine with it - especially those with whom I have had private email exchanges. They "get it" that I am not a harsh a**hole...I just BELIEVE in short, concise, and ACCURATE responses to questions. When I have to post a number of times to clear up complete train wreck threads where people are flat-out guessing, it annoys me. I guess when I am annoyed I should take a breath before planning my response.

I am long winded because I type quickly and I prefer to be complete in my responses rather than leaving people guessing what I meant.

Hi All,

Boy, am I glad I missed all this:-) We've cycled through these things a few times in the few years that some of us have been around these forums:-)

I am adding a few things after having read all the posts in this thread. I won't address individuals but perhaps some of the thoughts presented.

These won't be in any particular order.

Learning about the details of the minting process, including the making of hubs and dies is critical to understanding die varieties. Learning about the mechanical aspects of minting a coin becomes critical when trying to understand how error coins come about. Knowing the distinctions between die varieties, errors and varieties is also critical and the distinctions should be carefully studied.

The minting process does have finite parameters and there are only so many possibilities as to what happens and how things happen during that minting process.

There can be an infinite number of variations in some respects. Take a "struck through" error, for example. It is conceivable for a coin to show evidence that it was struck through any of a wide range of foreign objects. Yet, the process by which the struck through error occurred will be the same.

No matter what came between the die and a planchet to create a struck through error, there are identifiable characteristics that allow us to determine that a coin is indeed a struck through error. There is no guesswork. A determination is based upon fact and the experience of the person viewing the coin (or the images of a coin).

The more you work with coins and the more you study how they are manufactured, the more you will be able to determine if a coin is a clunker or a keeper.

When looking at books, keep in mind that there are some woefully outdated volumes out there. There are books that have been written and reprinted since the 1960s. People can still read books purchased today that "talk" about galvanos, for example. Yet today, coins are designed and executed using computers almost from the beginning of the process to the end. No Galvanoes, no reducing machines, etc.

I'll let you in on something....since 1999 or so, the obverse die, for example is not always the hammer die:-) when striking U.S. coins. You won't find that published too often as many people just repeat the old stuff over and over again.

Anyway...there are people here who aren't guessing about what they see in an image. Try to learn as much as you can from those folks:-)

have Fun,
Bill