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 Replies: 21 / Views: 3,873 |
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Moderator
 United States
15432 Posts |
Fun coin ... I suspect this is most likely a modern version of the infamous gold-plated nickel ... but pleased that you had an opportunity to learn about the shenanigans that were being played out in 1883.  Wondering why this coin is posted in the Modern US Coin forum?  It belongs elsewhere (Classic US coins) so we can keep the forums straight. Anyways ... thanks for sharing the photos. David |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1547 Posts |
Yeah, that's what it looks like you've got, a JT, or a reasonable facsimile, thereof, all because the geniuses at the U. S. Mint let those buggers go without a denomination.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
597 Posts |
i wonder if you could take off the gold with that electricfier thing. It wouldn't hurt the coin and the coin may be worth more without the gold.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
20753 Posts |
BUT, what if some idiot made a faked Nickel with real Gold back then. AND you just found it.  |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
17884 Posts |
Quote:
The U.S. government tried to destroy all the "racketeer" Nickels Fiction Quote:
The U.S. government tried to prosecute "racketeers" who used gold-plated 1883 "No Cents" Nickels as $5 gold coins. The most famous case involved Josh Tatum, a deaf mute who goldplated over 1,000 Nickels. His lawyers argued that since he never "told" anyone they were $5 coins, the unsuspecting shopkeepers came to that conclusion on their own ... and he evaded prosecution. Josh had a reputation as a joker, and the phrase "to josh" entered the English language as a result of this case! All complete fiction. There were no prosecutions, no Josh Tatum, and the word josh meaning to trick fool or joke with dates from the 1830's. While some of the Racketeer nickels were reported to have been reeded, that doesn't mean they all were. As for this being a recent fabrication, How many people would take a Mint State 1883 nickel and gold plate it today? Back in 1883 when they were only worth a nickel sure. But in the few decades? I doubt it. That's why the typical "racketeer nickel" that you see is a gold plated Good - VG. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
594 Posts |
Quote:
All complete fiction. There were no prosecutions, no Josh Tatum, and the word josh meaning to trick fool or joke with dates from the 1830's.
Interesting. Can you state your referances? Quote:
While some of the Racketeer nickels were reported to have been reeded, that doesn't mean they all were. If they wanted it to work they would be. Would you take a Morgan dollar that wasn't reeded? Quote:
How many people would take a Mint State 1883 nickel and gold plate it today? Those that want to pass it off as a Racketeer. Surprisingly the "No Cents" version is more common in higher grades than the "With Cents", due to the hoarding of them back then. Quote:
That's why the typical "racketeer nickel" that you see is a gold plated Good - VG Dude, The "Liberty" in the crown rates a minimum VF15-20. The creases in the stars on this coin don't show up till grade VF35. And the hairlines could push it to EF45 http://www.pcgs.com/photograde/#/LibNic/Grades |
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
1204 Posts |
I don't think all the racketeer nickel have reading in the rim edge ! Just look at the one posted on this site where they sold out of them http://www.govmint.com/item/The-Rac...l/1801433/11 plus say things like " must be in average circulation condition to be a real fake jt or racketeer is just silly in my opinion ! |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
594 Posts |
Reeding was put on coins to prevent people from "shaving" the edges. If the coin did not have the reeding it meant that it HAD been shaved and would thus be light in weight. So, don't you think they needed to be reeded?
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
17884 Posts |
Quote:
Interesting. Can you state your referances? In almost forty years of collecting I have seen several variations of this story, with josh having been tried in several different cities. I have seen contemporary reports of merchants being taken by the coins or warning to watch to avoid getting taken, but no contemporary reports of an actual prosecution of a Josh Tatum or anyone else, nothing that can actually be traced to a real court record anywhere. As for the word Josh the earliest citation is from the St. Louis Reveille of 1845 so I was a little early on that. but it was probably around a little before 1845. In either case it had nothing to do with a Josh Tatum for 40 years later. Quote:If they wanted it to work they would be. Would you take a Morgan dollar that wasn't reeded? Have you seen some of the contemporary counterfeits that successfully passed back then? A lack of reeding would not have been that great a mistake to overcome. Quote:
Those that want to pass it off as a Racketeer. Surprisingly the "No Cents" version is more common in higher grades than the "With Cents", due to the hoarding of them back then. Yes the No Cent coins are readily available in higher grade, but except for the very low grade modern "racketeer nickels" the Racketeers tend to sell for LESS than an unaltered coin, so why take a MS coin gold plate it so that it will sell for LESS money? Quote:Dude, The "Liberty" in the crown rates a minimum VF15-20. The creases in the stars on this coin don't show up till grade VF35. And the hairlines could push it to EF45 http://www.pcgs.com/photograde/#/LibNic/Grades I said the TYPICAL "racketeer nickel" The coin that began this thread is not typical and may be a contemporary one. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
594 Posts |
Quote:
As for the word Josh the earliest citation is from the St. Louis Reveille of 1845 so I was a little early on that. but it was probably around a little before 1845. In either case it had nothing to do with a Josh Tatum for 40 years later.
Hmmm I did some more investigating and kept running into Josh Tatum. However, I did find that the term was first used in 1845, like you said. But they can't state the origin of it. This predates Tatum. Here is something else; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AVkf0EEl4GMScroll to the second answer here; http://answers.yahoo.com/question/i...60522AAsiRndBut then again, I have only found references to the St. Louis Reveille. I have, and no one so far, has been able to provide the actual citation, even tho copies still do exist. Issue and page no. cannot be found by me. And I found this; http://www.pcgs.com/articles/article997.chtmlPCGS recognizes the Tatum story. That's good enough for me. Edited by KenRingold
05/02/2011 5:35 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
870 Posts |
I'd take Conder at his word... he knows his stuff! =) But it's good to do the research on your own. Conder's knowledge pre-dates the Internet and all that anybody wanting to be right can write on it... Anyway, very cool coin. I learned a lot today!
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Pillar of the Community
United States
594 Posts |
Another note. I did search for Federal Court cases for Josh Tatum and came up with zero. HHHmmm. The mystery has yet to be solved.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
17884 Posts |
Citation from St Louis Reveille "Look out in future, and if you must Josh, why, give a private one." Sorry don't have further context. It isn't surprising that you would keep running into the Josh Tatum Story. It has been repeated over and over since at least the early 1960's and probably even earlier than that. It is FIRMLY lodged in our numismatic mythology. Just like the story that the mint made MacNeil add the chain mail to the Standing Liberty quarter because of a great public outcry over the bare breast. |
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
1888 Posts |
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"I have always wanted one of them, any idea how much they are worth?" There was a high grade set of these in a fancy presentation box that sold at a local auction house last week for close to $200. With the sales tax + buyer's penalty, it would have been OVER 200. Still want one ? Edited by mysilveryears
05/03/2011 12:21 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
594 Posts |
Quote:
Citation from St Louis Reveille "Look out in future, and if you must Josh, why, give a private one." Sorry don't have further context. I think more of the citation is needed. It looks to me like it's someone talking to a person named Josh. |
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Posted 04/30/2011 5:04 pm
