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Is Gold Money? According To Bernanke; No.

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Pillar of the Community
United States
4008 Posts
 Posted 07/14/2011  7:40 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Ed_B to your friends list
Bernanke is just PO'd because he KNOWS that he cannot wave his pen at a pile of bricks and magically transmute them into gold. He cannot create so much as a single atom of gold... but he CAN create trillions of FRNs.

So, let's see... gold has been around and used as money for what... 5,000 years? FRNs have been around for about 50 years. Hmmm... looks a lot longevity is WAY on the side of gold.
Valued Member
United States
302 Posts
 Posted 07/16/2011  6:45 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add mmerlinn to your friends list
Gold (and other commodities) have INTRINSIC VALUE. Paper is worthless. Guess which survives.

The government is the only entity that can take perfectly good paper, cover it with perfectly good ink, and make it WORTHLESS. Paraphrased quote I saw somewhere.
New Member
United States
9 Posts
 Posted 07/16/2011  9:35 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add lilrud to your friends list
The only thing this does is make Ron paul look more foolish than he already does. Of course what Bernake said was obvious. Gold isn't "money" just like gems aren't money. They're commodities just like wheat or oil. They have intrinsic value. When you mint it into coins it becomes money. I don't see Ron Paul much but does he always say meaningless things like this?
Rest in Peace
United States
9104 Posts
 Posted 07/16/2011  11:49 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add biggfredd to your friends list

Quote:
The problem I have with purchasing gold is the price, be it an asset or money. It's just beyond me that anything could cost $1600 for a measly oz! Maybe if it comes down (doubtful?), I will be able to get into the game...


You have to get over that $ mindset, or you may never get out of the hole.

I just checked. An ounce of gold today costs 436 gallons of gas. When it became legal to trade in 1974, an ounce of gold cost $200.90, and gas was $.329, so gold was 611 gallons an oz.

Sounds like you should be grabbing some of that bargain gold.
Valued Member
United States
302 Posts
 Posted 07/17/2011  12:07 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add mmerlinn to your friends list

Quote:
The problem I have with purchasing gold is the price, be it an asset or money. It's just beyond me that anything could cost $1600 for a measly oz! Maybe if it comes down (doubtful?), I will be able to get into the game...


Quote:
You have to get over that $ mindset, or you may never get out of the hole.


You need to quit measuring gold by a RUBBER yardstick (dollars) and start measuring gold by WHAT IT WILL BUY.

Pillar of the Community
United States
830 Posts
 Posted 07/17/2011  10:27 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add GoThunder to your friends list
I found Peter Schiff's writing Thursday interesting. Titled :It Ain't Money If I Can't Print It!

Quoted from this link: http://www.europac.net/commentaries...ant_print_it


Quote:
By:
Peter Schiff
Thursday, July 14, 2011

I have been forecasting with near certainty that QE2 would not be the end of the Fed's money-printing program. My suspicions were confirmed in both the Fed minutes on Tuesday and Fed Chairman Ben Bernanke's semi-annual testimony to Congress yesterday. The former laid out the conditions upon which a new round of inflation would be launched, and the latter re-emphasized -- in case anyone still doubted -- that Mr. Bernanke has no regard for the principles of a sound currency.

Tuesday's release of the Fed minutes contained the first indication that a third round of quantitative easing (QE3) is being considered. The notes described unanimous agreement that QE2 should be completed, along with the following comment: "depending on how economic conditions evolve, the Committee might have to consider providing additional monetary policy stimulus, especially if economic growth remained too slow to meaningfully reduce the unemployment rate in the medium run." Since the unemployment situation is deteriorating, and by all accounts will continue to do so, the Fed is essentially pledging to keep the spigot turned on. The committee also decided to look only at current "overall inflation" in making their judgments, as opposed to "inflation trends." Since new dollars take awhile to circulate around the economy and raise prices, this means the Fed is sure to be too late in tightening once inflation starts to run away, causing more dislocations in the American economy.

If anyone had lingering faith that Mr. Bernanke actually has a plan to end the US government's addiction to cheap money, the Chairman's semi-annual testimony to Congress should have washed it away. In addition to claiming that his money-printing has helped the US economy, Bernanke told Congress that gold is not money, people buying gold are not concerned about inflation, and the external value of the dollar has no influence on its domestic purchasing power. He even took a moment to stump for President Obama's plan to raise the debt ceiling.

By claiming that gold is not money, the Chairman demonstrates his ignorance of much of monetary history. He told Congressman Ron Paul that he had no idea why central banks hold gold, before speculating that it might have something to do with tradition. Yes, traditionally gold is money, which is precisely why central banks hold it. And gold is money because central bankers like Mr. Bernanke cannot be trusted with a paper substitute.

Bernanke further disputes the facts by claiming that the only reason people are buying gold is to hedge against uncertainty, or "tail risks" as he calls them. My advice to the Chairman is to ask the people who are actually buying it. As someone who has been buying gold myself for a decade, I can assure him that my gold buying has nothing to do with "uncertainty." In fact, it's just the opposite. I am buying gold because of what is certain, not what is uncertain. I am certain that Mr. Bernanke's incompetence will destroy the value of the dollar and unleash runaway inflation.

If it were true that people bought gold to protect themselves from market uncertainty, as the Chairman claims, then the metal should have spiked in the midst of the '08 credit crunch. Instead, it fell along with most other assets. People instinctively fled into US dollars and Treasuries because of their long record of stability. What Bernanke doesn't understand is that his irresponsible monetary policy is undermining that faith in US assets, built up over generations. That is what's driving gold: easy money, negative interest rates, and quantitative easing.

Finally, by claiming that the dollar's exchange rate has no effect on domestic prices, Mr. Bernanke demonstrates that he probably lacks the competence to be a bank teller, let alone Chairman of the Federal Reserve. A weaker dollar means Americans have to pay more for imported goods. But it also means domestic producers have to pay more for raw materials and imported components, which raises domestic production costs as well. It also means that more domestically produced goods are exported, reducing the supply and raising the price of what is left for Americans to consume. This is Econ 101.

Given the Chairman's confusion on the basics of economics, perhaps it's no surprise that he's put quantitative easing right back on the table, where, despite prior rhetoric, it has been all along. The Fed has always known that QE3 is coming; it's just looking for an excuse to launch it.

The problem is that fighting a recession with QE is like fighting a fire with gasoline. As the flames of recession reignite, more QE, while dousing it momentarily, will only produce an even larger economic inferno.

At one point, Bernanke said, "The right analogy for not raising the debt ceiling is going out and having a spending spree on your credit card and then refusing to pay the bill." He's got the analogy right, but his conclusions are completely wrong. Yes, Congress has gone on a spending spree and it's time to pay up. But raising the debt ceiling is like taking out a Mastercard to pay the Visa... it just makes the problem worse. If you or I go out one night, get drunk, and run up a huge credit card bill, we know that the way to fix it is to buckle down and pay it back. We might postpone vacation plans or put off buying a new car, we might cancel our cable TV subscription or gym membership. The point is that we would have to reduce current consumption to make up for the overspending in the past.

Obama claims that raising the debt ceiling is about getting a hold of the federal debt. Have you ever heard of anyone getting out of debt by taking on more debt? Has anyone ever reduced their debt without reducing current consumption? How can the Fed Chairman endorse such a preposterous idea?

Bernanke actually went a step further and warned against reducing current federal spending too sharply, claiming that such a move might impede the "recovery." He apparently believes that it is the role of the Congress to go on spending sprees, and his role to pay the mounting bills with freshly printed dollars. The fact that this formula has produced larger and larger economic crises does not seem to bother him. I guess ignorance is bliss.


Edited by GoThunder
07/17/2011 10:29 am
Valued Member
175 Posts
 Posted 07/17/2011  7:55 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Ron2012Paul to your friends list
Great article Thunder I enjoy listening and reading anything Schiff has to say.
Pillar of the Community
United States
4008 Posts
 Posted 07/17/2011  8:04 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Ed_B to your friends list

Quote:
You need to quit measuring gold by a RUBBER yardstick (dollars) and start measuring gold by WHAT IT WILL BUY.

Indeed so. The story of wheat is illustrative. 1000 years ago, a man could buy 3 50# bags of wheat to feed his family in exchange for 1 gram of gold. Today, we can buy nearly 7.5 bags for that same gram of gold. Inflation? What inflation?

(yes, I know that they did not use grams 1000 years ago but that amount of gold is the story here and not the 18th century invention of the metric system)
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Australia
16845 Posts
 Posted 07/18/2011  08:12 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sap to your friends list

Quote:
You need to quit measuring gold by a RUBBER yardstick (dollars) and start measuring gold by WHAT IT WILL BUY.

The problem is, the vast amount of people in society today are not. A useful definition of "money" is "the financial yardstick by which everything else in a society is valued". Look at the share market, commodities market, gas station, grocery store, wherever. Everybody's using dollars for their yardstick, not gold, oil, or anything else. If only a tiny percentage of people in a given society are treating something as money, then it's not money.

The problem is also, "money" should in theory have a stable value in and of itself, caused by a restriction in supply. Historically, money has been made of materials that were hard to obtain - like precious metals. With modern money, there are no such restraints. And with mostly electronic money, they aren't even limited to how fast the printing presses can work. There are a nearly infinite number of electrons out there they can use.
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
Pillar of the Community
United States
3294 Posts
 Posted 07/18/2011  08:56 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add nod2003 to your friends list
Ed B, you seem to forget that farm yields have increased way beyond 2.5x in the last 1000 years...
Rest in Peace
United States
9104 Posts
 Posted 09/22/2011  12:42 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add biggfredd to your friends list

Quote:
It's just beyond me that anything could cost $1600 for a measly oz.


Stay away from cocaine, rare stamps, diamonds...
Pillar of the Community
United States
3294 Posts
 Posted 09/22/2011  12:43 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add nod2003 to your friends list
Or high grade 1916D US dimes.
Pillar of the Community
United States
931 Posts
 Posted 09/22/2011  12:46 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add junior e to your friends list
Let's not get ridiculous. I will never stay away from cocaine.
New Member
United States
7 Posts
 Posted 09/22/2011  3:20 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add kmncd to your friends list

Quote:
Let's not get ridiculous. I will never stay away from cocaine.

She don't lie,she don't lie,she don't lie....
The problem with getting over with gold being 1800 per oz is purely psychological,just imagine hyperinflation in 1923 Germany when piece of bread cost was a few billions of reichsmarks.Plus gold is store of value not number,I really don't care if I get paid 400USd or 4000USd per oz. I care what I would buy for that money,did my purchasing power diminished over time,or not.And taking a global point of view China and India has the culture to appreciate precious metals,and once they going not only afford a cup or rice but will have more money to save there is going to be money flow into other things including overall commodities for the rainy day.Women in Muslim countries store their wealth in gold.These are new players in the arena which you have to factor in.If you zoom out a little bit I think U.S. had a great post WWII boom while others were rebuilding themselves from the scratch(i.e. Germany)others from not so distant Soviet collapse.And the upcoming 50 years are going to be very interesting.With head-to-head competition from the BRIC countries and old favorites trying to keep in the race.
Pillar of the Community
United States
931 Posts
 Posted 09/22/2011  4:12 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add junior e to your friends list
I need to get an old widow from India for a girlfriend. Hard to look at, but gosh, she comes equipped with three or four pounds of 22K gold. What a girl. I'm in love!
Edited by junior e
09/22/2011 4:16 pm
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