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Replies: 15 / Views: 2,602 |
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Rest in Peace
United States
9104 Posts |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2295 Posts |
Interesting article, but they don't mention the speculators and the trading of silver as a stock rather than the physical material.
And the part of the ratio of gold and silver hasn't been valid for decades. Articles always state about the ratio, but when was the last time that was really valid or relevant?
And I don't think that silver is used commercially as much as people think as it used to, back in the old photography days. I have read articles stating it is being used just as much or more, but nothing stating number of ounces per year and for what. I don't think it is being tracked in that great of a detail.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4008 Posts |
If you want good info on silver and its market, just look to: http://www.silverinstitute.org/site/People who talk about a gold / silver ratio are usually commenting on the idea that this ratio would be supported by the amounts of these materials produced IF there was not price manipulation going on that distorts the silver market. There is a lot of info that supports this contention, so I won't repeat it here. It is easily found via a Google search, however. The SGTReport web site shows the ounces of all PMs and industrial metals that have been produced this year. They show a ratio of about 9.6 to 1 for silver to gold ounces. The amount of a commodity does have an effect on prices but there are other factors that bear on the price besides just that.
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Previously Banned Member
107 Posts |
This is still a great time to buy silver ... I bought most of mine in 2003 and 2004 at between $5 and $6 per ounce. I sold 3000 ounces last fall to make my retirement easier. I am holding the other half until it hits $50 per ounce.
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Valued Member
United States
100 Posts |
Quote: Interesting article, but they don't mention the speculators and the trading of silver as a stock rather than the physical material.
And the part of the ratio of gold and silver hasn't been valid for decades. Articles always state about the ratio, but when was the last time that was really valid or relevant?
And I don't think that silver is used commercially as much as people think as it used to, back in the old photography days. I have read articles stating it is being used just as much or more, but nothing stating number of ounces per year and for what. I don't think it is being tracked in that great of a detail.
I think you need to read this article wquinn.. http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-...odities.htmlOunces..hell my boy...how about 15,415 metric tons this year alone...2.5% more than 2011...Crystalline silicon solar panels use as much as 0.12 grams of silver per watt, and as much as 40 grams go into a 32-inch plasma television. As for the gold/silver ratio - I for one am watching it. right now its about 50 to 1 but at one point last year it was 30 to 1. When it gets to that point or lower (ideally 25 to 1 or better), I'm converting some of my silver to gold Earl
Edited by EarlB 02/02/2012 7:02 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3670 Posts |
I like that Earl, convert to gold at 25 to 1....
I had just over 2 oz. of gold last year, but as always can't afford to keep it, esp gold....
Now then, if one had a large amount of a higher valued silver closer to 25 to 1. You trade your silver at 25 to 1, where as you would get about 1 oz. of gold for 50 oz. of silver today, where as tom in your 25 to 1 world you could get 2 oz. of gold for 50 oz. of silver....
Too even be worth getting enough gold to make it worth ones wild, I figure 200 oz. of silver for trade, via the result of 8 oz. of gold gained. If I had 8 oz. of gold, I would do everything I could at this point to not sell any of it, and keep adding to it, or even 4 ounces would be pretty sweet, via a 100 oz. swap out....
Edited by Silverhawk74 02/02/2012 7:15 pm
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Previously Banned Member
107 Posts |
Canadian Wildlife Series Bullion Coin The Canadian Timber Wolf coin is the first coin released in the Royal Canadian Mint's 3 year long Canadian Wildlife Coin Series program. 2011 Timber Wolf Bullion Coin Weight........................31.1 grams Diameter............................38mm Purity..........................9999 silver Face Value.........................$5 Can In late 2010, I purchased a monstor box (500 coins) for $15,500 CAD ($31.00 per coin). Today, I can get $29,000 for this box of coins ($58 per coin). This would be 87% profit in less than 14 months. If I had purchased regular Canada 1 ounce Silver Maple Leaf coins or United States 1 ounce Silver Eagle coins, my cost would have been about $29.00 per coin and I could sell them today for about $38 per coin or a 31% profit but only because of the increase in bullion value. On a box of 500 coins the difference in profit would be $10,000 over the same 14 month period. The important lesson to learn from this is not whether you purchase gold or silver, but purchasing the right gold or silver items (buying the right coins). In this case the bullion value increased approximately 31 per cent for all 1 ounce silver coins. However, in the case of the 2011 Canada Timber Wolf Silver Coin , it was the first in a series and there was limited mintage and coin collectors are becoming very interested in "special" bullion coins. As a result of those factors, this coin gained an additional 56% more than the regular 1 ounce bullion coins. Furthermore, these are very easy to sell compared to gold coins. I call silver the poor man's gold and in this world there are many more poor men who can buy silver rather than gold. Some people would argue that this is not really coin investing but rather coin dealing. Whatever you call it, silver has been very profitable for me and much more so when I invest in the right silver coins. P.S. I am going to sell this box of coins and look for the next coins to purchase.
Edited by coinvet 02/02/2012 8:11 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3670 Posts |
Crazy stuff there Coinvet, as I have noticed how fast the Canadian wildlife series increases in value.....
But again to make a return like that, one needs enough to buy a 500 box at 31 bucks per coin, IF an when the price drops back to that range....
If I ever get to the point where I have 15.5 grand to invest, I will indeed consider that route.....
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
3692 Posts |
How many collectors buy the whole dang box, though? You need a speculator/dealer to purchase it for them and dole it out. The person who buys the whole box is a hoarder - but why would you hoard "specialty" items when the normal bullion is much cheaper?
I'm going to hold for a few years and buy numismatic stuff instead. Also, I'm of the opinion that you can't even compare gold to silver anymore. There are so many applications for silver now, it's not funny. A "ratio" would only be a rough comparison in price and not a true one based on rarity because I think that even if there were more ounces of silver than gold above ground that silver would be worth more because of the demand it has. I don't know if I'm making myself clear enough.
Also, I think specialty .999 collectors' bullion is quite unnecessary and it speaks to how speculative and clueless we really are. I think that alloys are what make metals interesting.
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Previously Banned Member
107 Posts |
Libertad, I will address your concerns. The interesting thing about the 1 ounce silver Canadian Wildlife series is that when the coins are first issued by the mint, they have been issued at a price comparable with the 1 ounce maple leave investment coins. As I said before, when I purchased the 2011 Timber Wolf Coins @ $31 per coin, the 1 ounce Silver Maple Leaf coins cost $29 per coin. To the Royal Canadian Mint, both the wildlife series coins and the maple leaf coins are investment coins (bullion value plus small premium). But I knew that collectors would want this coin and that this would add to the coins value. I have done the same with the 2011 Grizzly Bear coin and the 2012 Cougar coin. In fact, on the day that I purchased the Cougar coins, the 2012 maple leaf coins were on 17 cents per coin cheaper. I am predicting that the Grizzly Bear coins and Cougar coins will not do as well aa the Wolf coins, but they will do much better than the maple leaf coins. Libertad asked: "why would you hoard "specialty" items when the normal bullion is much cheaper"? 1. The regular maple leaf coins were $29 per coin and the wildlife coins were $31 per coin. So, the difference in price was minimal. 2. Although there was only $2 more per coin for the wildlife coins, the potential for larger returns was much greater. This proved to be the case. At the time of purchase the 2011 Timber Wolf Bullion Coin cost $2 more than a 2011 maple leave investment coin, today the 2011 Timber Wolf Bullion Coin is worth $20 more than a 2011 maple leave investment coin. The additional increase in value is due to the collector value of this coin. Libertad said: "The person who buys the whole box is a hoarder". I would claim that this is not the case. I am an investor. I put down $15,500 for 500 coins and I held onto them until the price was right. I believe that the collector value of the 2011 Timber Wolf Bullion Coin has already reached its potential. Future changes in value will be a result of changes to the price of silver. Therefore, I made arrangements to sell all 500 coins tomorrow at $57.77 per coin less 2% (fees) = $56.61 per coin - $31.00 (original purchase price) = $25.61 (income per coin) x 500 coins = $12,805 (82.6% profit in 14 months). This was an investment ... not hoarding. It is the same as if I had purchased 500 shares in a mining company and sold them when the price was right. I shared this example because this particular posting was discussing investing in gold versus investing in silver. Also, throughout this forum, there are many postings regarding coin investing versus coin collecting. My point is that while sometimes a coin collection can become a coin investment, I believe that is more by chance than by design. For the most part my coin collecting is completely separate from my coin investing. To be a good investor takes time. It takes careful analysis and understanding. There is some gamble with every investment, but it is far safer than rolling a dice or drawing a card. There is a lot of potential to profit from investing in silver, especially silver coins. You just have to find the right coins. Sometimes I pick a big winner, sometimes I pick coins that make modest gains, and I do not want to talk about the losers that I have picked. The main thing is that I have gained more than I have lost.
Edited by coinvet 02/03/2012 12:17 am
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3670 Posts |
Neither idea is better or worse then the other, as both are sound ideas for what you each want IMO....
Some of us like bullion, others like true numismatic coins with circulation an history. Both have their pros an cons like anything. The silver 90% angle is cheaper in, but it often is cheaper sold later. Bullion cost a bit more, but sells for a bit more....
What ever makes you happy in the end, and to each their own on what to collect and invest in I figure....
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Previously Banned Member
107 Posts |
Silverhawk74 You have stated it quite nicely.
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Previously Banned Member
107 Posts |
With reference to my previous postings, at one source today, the 2012 Canada 1 ounce silver maple coin is selling for $38.66 per coin and the 2012 Canada 1 ounce silver Cougar (wildlife series) coin is selling for $39.56 and this is a difference of only 90 cents. I predict that this time next year, the 2012 Canada 1 ounce silver maple coin will be selling just over its bullion value ( as it always does) while the 2012 Canada 1 ounce silver Cougar (wildlife series) coin will be selling at least $12 over its bullion value. That is why I am buying 2012 Canada 1 ounce silver Cougar (wildlife series) coins.
Edited by coinvet 02/03/2012 12:33 am
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5855 Posts |
coinvet, My only question is where/how you expect to actually sell your 2011 Timber Wolf Coins at or near the current "value" of $58 per coin? A dealer will certainly pay far less since they need to make a profit. Selling on ebay costs a lot of money in fees. Do you have a source that will buy all 500 from you at once for $29,000? If not, your projected profit may be a bit illusory.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4008 Posts |
I've read that proof gold and silver coins from several years ago often sell for MUCH more than the regular coins of the same metal and age but that are not proofs... and by quite a large percentage. I have to admit that most of the proof coins I have seen are gorgeous but they can be pretty spendy as well.
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Rest in Peace
 United States
9104 Posts |
Lately, because peeps buy proofs based on that idea, BUs often are worth more, due to lower mintages.
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Replies: 15 / Views: 2,602 |
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