So...did Tom Noe Really Do Anything Wrong? - Page 2

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Author	Replies: 36 / Views: 2,544	Page: of 3

national dealer Pillar of the Community United States 2724 Posts	Posted 06/20/2005 1:52 pm I deal with both Republicans and Democrats on the national level, and I can tell you honestly that the only difference between the two is the designation on the door of their office. In the end, both want to raise taxes, spend more money, and make a few dollars for themselves. Whether they "rob" to pay the rich or the poor really makes no difference in the real world. The rich will always be rich, the poor will always be poor, and our money will always go to pay someone else. They both "vote" to pay themselves more. They both "vote" to raise our taxes. They both "vote" to send our money to some other country. In the end, they look very much the same. Whichever party that is not in power will blame the other. They will do all in their power to bring that party down. Judge the person, not the party. Today it is more about which side of the isle a person sits on, instead of what this person is doing. Report this Post to the Staff
Metalman Pillar of the Community United States 7123 Posts	Posted 06/20/2005 3:06 pm Well said ND,, But it was forseen to be so by one of our founding Fathers!! anyone know who said this ? Cherish, therefore, the spirit of our people, and keep alive their attention. Do not be too severe upon their errors, but reclaim them by enlightening them. If once they become inattentive to the public affairs, you and I, and Congress, and Assemblies, Judges, and Governors, shall all become wolves. Rick Report this Post to the Staff
CiScO Valued Member United States 458 Posts	Posted 06/20/2005 4:09 pm quote: Originally posted by Metalman Well said ND,, But it was forseen to be so by one of our founding Fathers!! anyone know who said this ? Cherish, therefore, the spirit of our people, and keep alive their attention. Do not be too severe upon their errors, but reclaim them by enlightening them. If once they become inattentive to the public affairs, you and I, and Congress, and Assemblies, Judges, and Governors, shall all become wolves. Rick Thomas Jefferson Report this Post to the Staff
CiScO Valued Member United States 458 Posts	Posted 06/20/2005 4:44 pm Who said this -"Politics is suppose to be the second oldest profession. I have come to realize that it bears a very close resemblance to the first."-- Report this Post to the Staff
longnine009 Pillar of the Community United States 1247 Posts	Posted 06/20/2005 5:37 pm quote: Originally posted by zakgold You're right...the only differance is that democrats would have lost money running the coin fund, played class warfare (again) and demanded more taxes to fund their failed program. Your right...being so inept at business, democrats would have to follow one of the existing business philosophies our the genius republicans. Hopefully, it won't be the one for the airline industry or pumping oil out of Iraq. Maybe they could follow the "free trade" in pharmaceuticals model? You know, pass a law saying no one can buy coins from Canada. You must buy them all from Tommy. They should call it "innovative," call folks who don't like it "obstructionists" (class warfare is rather passé) and then run off (again) to a bunker at an undisclosed location.--"I've got my spine, I've got my orange crush..." REM Edited by longnine009 06/20/2005 5:46 pm Report this Post to the Staff
Mike Rest in Peace United States 2884 Posts	Posted 06/20/2005 6:59 pm All of us as Americans(and free peoples all over the world) have the right to our opinions. These very differences, widely and quite loudly debated are what makes Democracy work! We are all wrong and all right at one time or another. A very famous Brit said.... "It is a mistake to look too far ahead. The chain of destiny can only be grasped one link at a time". Sir Winston Churchill Hey Longnine009, the rest of the lyrics are( so as not to be taken out of context for those who don't know the song!!!) Follow me, don’t follow me I’ve got my spine, I’ve got my orange crush Collar me, don’t collar me I’ve got my spine, I’ve got my orange crush We are agents of the free I’ve had my fun and now it’s time to Serve your conscience overseas Coming in fast, over me REM, "Orange Crush" Edited by Mike 06/20/2005 9:24 pm Report this Post to the Staff
crystalk64 Pillar Of The Community 3147 Posts	Posted 06/20/2005 8:33 pm Seems to me Tom Noe is GUILTY of making the state of Ohio more money on their investments than any other fund in the last 5 years. If this deserves a lynching well the fools in Ohio should proceed. To get out of the investment coin market would be extremely foolish at this time. Basically, with their money tied up in rare coins it makes it extremely hard for a politician to put his hand in the cookie jar! That money was extremely safe there and hard to steal. I can understand how this would upset a politician. The only thing they really needed was a constant accounting for the coins and proper auditing of the accounts. But that would be too simple! Report this Post to the Staff
Metalman Pillar of the Community United States 7123 Posts	Posted 06/20/2005 9:29 pm Cisco I know Ive heard that quote, Ill take a stab at it and Guess Ronald Reagan ? I know thats probly wrong, but I just cant place it ? Good Job on Thomas Jefferson's Quote Really cool !!! Rick Edited by Metalman 06/20/2005 9:32 pm Report this Post to the Staff
CiScO Valued Member United States 458 Posts	Posted 06/21/2005 6:11 pm quote: Originally posted by Metalman Cisco I know Ive heard that quote, Ill take a stab at it and Guess Ronald Reagan ? I know thats probly wrong, but I just cant place it ? Good Job on Thomas Jefferson's Quote Really cool !!! Rick Alrite Ricky, u n I will play well with these quotes from famous peeps---hahahaha--U r correct sir, ole raygun stated that one-- Report this Post to the Staff
SFDukie Pillar of the Community United States 980 Posts	Posted 06/21/2005 6:28 pm quote: Originally posted by zakgold The Ohio Bureau of Workers Compensation (OBWC) authorizes just over 1.5% of their fund to be invested in rare coins (back in 1997). Total amount of the two funds is $50 million dollars. A lot of money, but compared to 18 billion dollars, just a tiny piece. The funds return a yearly double digit return on investment...better than other mutual funds and the stock market. The fund managers (like Noe) take their cut (fee), so why are the people of Ohio so upset. OK...I read that some coins were missing, but little did people know they were enroute to a coin show for sale and promotion. All have been accounted for. Are they upset that Noe and the other "coin managers" actually charged a mutual fund fee to manage these accounts? We don't live in a communistic society where the government tells you where to work. I wouldn't care what their fee was as long as returns on this fund have been as good as they demonstrated. So...did Tom Noe do anything wrong? Yes Zac, he did. He reported that he made $13.3 million dollars. However he was allowed to reinvest $5.4M dollars in the fund. So he has returned 13.3-5.4=7.9 million dollars to the state. However his OWN lawyer says 10-12 million dollars in iventory are missing. So he has made NO money for the state. On top of that, even using Noe's reported figures, 13.3 minus the 2Million plus in fess that he has pocketed from his reported paper gain equals 11Million dollars. 25 million was invested by OWC in 1998, 25M more in 2001. THat yields a time averaged "gain" of 5.5% per year, even if 10-12 million weren't missing. That's not double digits, even without his theft. Report this Post to the Staff
SFDukie Pillar of the Community United States 980 Posts	Posted 06/21/2005 6:42 pm quote: Originally posted by zakgold Their business plan worked. Return on investment realized double-digit yearly gains. The state made more money than expected. The OBWC was happy with the $8 million that the state received during the first 3 years and they were about to receive a check for $5.4 million on June 30, 2004, but chose to reinvest the money instead. Coins and assets of the state were held at a number of locations ready for sale. All coins/assets were accounted for. But...Noe and his partners charged the state a fee and if you profit from your services, that must be wrong!?! The best business transactions are usually when both parties WIN...however, according to Ohio democrats, they don;t see it that way. Zak, check these facts. above you say he made double digits, yet not only were they single digit returns, his own lawyers have said that 10-12 million in coins are, and this is a direct quote "missing". Another direct quote from Noe's legal team "There could be a shortfall in the range of 10 to 12 million" here is one of many independent sources http://www.daytondailynews.com/loca...oinmain.html On a lighter note, were you aware that Noe recently resigned his CCAC position? Don Edited by SFDukie 06/21/2005 7:10 pm Report this Post to the Staff
SFDukie Pillar of the Community United States 980 Posts	Posted 06/21/2005 6:46 pm quote: Originally posted by crystalk64 Seems to me Tom Noe is GUILTY of making the state of Ohio more money on their investments than any other fund in the last 5 years. If this deserves a lynching well the fools in Ohio should proceed. To get out of the investment coin market would be extremely foolish at this time. Basically, with their money tied up in rare coins it makes it extremely hard for a politician to put his hand in the cookie jar! That money was extremely safe there and hard to steal. I can understand how this would upset a politician. The only thing they really needed was a constant accounting for the coins and proper auditing of the accounts. But that would be too simple! Terry, Noe has returned less than $9 million to the state of Ohio, during one of the best recent bull markets in rare coins (98-present). Pretty easy to do when you are given $55.4M, and at least $10M is missing, and that is not counting over $1M written off as "bad" debt. That does not equal a profit for the state of Ohio. Report this Post to the Staff
longnine009 Pillar of the Community United States 1247 Posts	Posted 06/21/2005 7:44 pm quote: Originally posted by Mike [br Hey Longnine009, the rest of the lyrics are( so as not to be taken out of context for those who don't know the song!!!) Follow me, don’t follow me I’ve got my spine, I’ve got my orange crush Collar me, don’t collar me I’ve got my spine, I’ve got my orange crush We are agents of the free I’ve had my fun and now it’s time to Serve your conscience overseas Coming in fast, over me REM, "Orange Crush" Thanks Mike. But I intended to use only the lyrics I posted. The rest don't exactly fit with my opinion of Cheny. BTW don't most quotes exist out of context anyway? How can they not when most of the content is, how shall we say this?--"Missing." [/quote] Report this Post to the Staff
zakgold Valued Member United States 382 Posts	Posted 06/21/2005 8:26 pm As facts and figures of the Noe case comes clear, my opinion can easily change. Fraud and theft need to be dealt with harshly and I am all for hang-man's justice. I just don't understand what Dick Cheny has to do with the discussion. Oh...I forgot...he's a republican and an evil-white-insensitive-rich person. Whatever song you are quoting means nothing to most of us. After all, today's music is nothing more than an electric drum machine with heavy bass. It never fails, today's Democrats only recourse is to name call, scare my grand mother, and play class warfare...while wanting more tax revenues for failed program after failed program. They should have a COIN for the democrats dated 1972. That was the year they nominated McGovern and moved the whole party to the left of more taxes, more social programs, more federal control and less individualism. Unfortunately, it stayed there as the hippies that tried to storm the Chicago Democratic Convention of 1968 eveuntually made in roads as professors, news reporters, and commom day socialists. The party of Kennedy, Roosevelt and Truman? I don't think so. I turned in my democratic party membership after Jimmy Carter's tenure in office. Ronald Reagan made me believe that it is okay for me to work hard and keep more of my money without government help. As Lincoln stated, "You cannot make the poor rich by making the rich poor." Report this Post to the Staff
longnine009 Pillar of the Community United States 1247 Posts	Posted 06/21/2005 9:37 pm [quote]Originally posted by zakgold "I just don't understand what Dick Cheny has to do with the discussion. Oh...I forgot...he's a republican and an evil-white-insensitive-rich person. Whatever song you are quoting means nothing to most of us. After all, today's music is nothing more than an electric drum machine with heavy bass." ******************************************************** I know you don't know. But thanks for trying. Class warfare again? Your such a wise man Zakgold, so, surely you heard that when you point your finger at someone you have 3 fingers pointing at yourself. Sorry to hear that the song I was quoting means nothing to "most of us." But really, should you be talking about Individualism if your going to decide what others like or don't like? Yes I will agree that democrats are always trying to raise taxes. There is even an old joke that Reagan stayed awake long enough to recite--Democrats spend money like drunken sailors. The only difference being that drunken sailors at least spend their own money. That's true enough I suppose. But republicans borrow the money instead. They double, triple and quadtruple the national debt. Why is that better? It doesn't take any "talent" to push a mess off on another generation. Ooops, is that class warfare? Must remember no class warfare allowed. Well you got me with Jimmy Carter there's not much I can say in his defense, except that he flossed well. Does that count? But you might consider thanking Roosevelt, Truman and all the folks from the "Greatest Generation."--(and truly they are!) They saved everyone butts from the fascists. In fact, I'll do my part right now by thanking Ronald Reagan. His don't catch "Old Joe" films no doubt saved many a sailor from: Red rash in morning, sailor take warning. Here ya go Zagold, some class warfare: "Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." John F. Kennedy Now there you go again Johnny. Edited by longnine009 06/21/2005 9:46 pm Report this Post to the Staff
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