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Westwood Vs PCGS Lawsuit

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Author Previous TopicReplies: 7 / Views: 5,278Next Topic  
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Jon K's Avatar
United States
723 Posts
 Posted 07/11/2013  09:40 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Jon K to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Seems quiet . . . . .
I was trying to find discussion about this and can find none.
Is the suit well known?
Should we not be discussing this? Maybe I missed it . . . .
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oih82w8's Avatar
United States
7840 Posts
 Posted 07/11/2013  11:03 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add oih82w8 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
First that I have heard of it.

$50 Million Coin Industry Suit Filed
Edited by oih82w8
07/11/2013 11:03 am
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basebal21's Avatar
13014 Posts
 Posted 07/11/2013  12:22 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add basebal21 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
If this is the suit youre referring too (http://dockets.justia.com/docket/ca...782/533820/) it was dismissed with prejudice it seems after two failed attempts. To me it sounds a lot like someone was trying to bust up PCGS or run David Hall out of business and get rid of the competition. I dont know anyone that goes strickly off PCGS price guides, but there may be a little more I only skimmed the actual briefs filed.

You can read a little bit more about it here http://tushnet.blogspot.com/2012/12...nt-wore.html

As kind of an unimportant side note David Hall and Collectors Universe were fined 500 dollars for trying to recover their lawyer fees after winning with an improper claim.

Heres a pretty good power point describing it:


Quote:

•Dominick v. Collectors Universe, Inc.
, 2012 WL 6618616 (C.D. Cal.)
- "
Plaintiffs are individual rare coin dealer and corporation he owns that sells rare coins
- "
Defendants are individual rare coin dealer and business he owns or operates in the coin
industry including real time coin trading website and coin grading /rating service
- "
Plaintiffs alleged that defendants engaged in numerous acts to establish their control over the
realtime coin trading market including alleged allocation and exclusive dealing agreements as
well as price fixing.
- "
In Complaint, Plaintiffs asserted the individual defendant engaged in false advertising by
claiming that coins were "valued accurately and impartially" and that statement was not true
due illegal price fixing
- "
The False Advertising Lanham Act Claim was asserted only against the individual defendant, not
the website or the grading/rating service
- "
The Court dismissed the false advertising with prejudice
- "
12(b)(6)
•Plaintiffs lack standing to assert a Lanham Act claim against the Individual
•That the individual owns and operates the corporate defendants "is not to say that
he made the false statements"
•As a result, Plaintiffs must allege that any misrepresentations hindered their ability to
compete with Defendant entities
•(Court noted repeated failures to cure pleading deficiencies)
Edited by basebal21
07/11/2013 12:27 pm
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Jon K's Avatar
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723 Posts
 Posted 07/11/2013  12:45 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Jon K to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
That link is not working for me. Let me try to post this one. (edit, the link will not post)

If you google "westwood vs pcgs" it is about five hits down.

If anyone can figure out how to post the link, you are smarter than me . . . . .

Does not look quite the same from what I can see . . .

This is the allegation that caught my eye.


Quote:
"The allegation that David Hall, through his position of CEO at PCGS, and Director of CCE, ensured that the coins he sells receive higher grades than other dealers' coins of equal/similar value and quality. This act allegedly guided members towards purchasing PCGS graded coins trusting in the graded values of those coins, when those grades and values were actually incorrect."
Edited by Jon K
07/11/2013 2:27 pm
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basebal21's Avatar
13014 Posts
 Posted 07/11/2013  1:00 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add basebal21 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Yea they sound like the exact same case. The actual suit was Called Dominick v Collectors Universe. Westwood must be the name of his company but its also why you dont find anything about it in any of the case law sites if you use Westwood instead of Dominick.

I dont buy the allegation as anything other than a jealous dealer basically or someone not happy with the grades his coins got.

Hall really doesn't have anything to gain getting his coins over graded hurting PCGSs reputation and jeopardizing that. PCGS is worth far more than the coins he sells so to me that would make no sense. Not to mention if people thought that they wouldnt buy the coins hall has anyway. He may have a few that are over graded but that happens from time to time for everyone. If you look at the coins on his site though theyre impressive.

How would you prove that anyway, Dominicks grading skills vs PCGS? Ill need to see some hard evidence, like recorded conversation type evidence before Id give the benefit of the doubt to a random lawsuit.
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Jon K's Avatar
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723 Posts
 Posted 07/11/2013  2:28 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Jon K to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Don't think I am taking any sides here, I most certainly am not.
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westcoin's Avatar
United States
9794 Posts
 Posted 07/11/2013  11:43 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add westcoin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
If you google "westwood vs PCGS" it is about five hits down.


Ha, when I do that there are only 5 links and all point to this thread!

At least CCF is hitting the SEO part of the site hard!


EDIT - I see the link now, I was using the quotes, took them out and added lawsuit - yep it's at a banned link here on CCF.
"Buy the Book Before You Buy the Coin" - Aaron R. Feldman - "And read it" - Me 2013!
ANA Life Member #3288 in good standing since 1981, ANS, Early American Coppers Member (EAC), Colonial Coin Collectors Club member (C4), Conder Token Collector Club member (CTCC), Civil War Token Society (CWTS) member, Liberty Seated Collectors Club (LSCC) & Numismatic Bibliomania Society member (NBS), USMex, Member in good standing, 2¢ variety collector.

See my want page: http://goccf.com/t/140440
Edited by westcoin
07/12/2013 12:03 am
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acloco's Avatar
United States
3540 Posts
 Posted 07/12/2013  12:12 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add acloco to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Take a step back and look at TPG's. Other than the actual grading service, why is any other monetary value of the item necessary in order to charge you for the service of grading?

Add in grading services providing a "value" of the item graded to their standards?

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