AU-58 Is MS-64

I remember that thread (and the issue of a certain Melbourne dealer who shall remain nameless). Strange to think it was 5 years ago and so many of the regulars then no longer post or visit. Fred and my article in the May issue was about the fakes (if I recall correctly), PCGS at that time had slabbed dozens of pre decimal fakes (that I know of, how many others had been slabbed is something PCGS won't ever tell) from the same dies as the fakes in that article. At that stage I had 2 fakes that had been slabbed plus a number more raw fakes were lent by me to them for closer examination (they were returned recently) and the 2 slabbed fakes are safely tucked away. Hopefully PCGS learnt their lesson about aussie pre decimal fakes and have stopped it (though I still spot freshly slabbed foreign coins out there).

Dipping isn't cleaning nor can you tell when it's done properly. Anyone saying otherwise is kidding themselves and just guessing based off of color.




The only lie is people saying that is a lie.

BB21:



I will on request post numerous photos of PCGS and NGC goofs here that were definitely not graded by an Australian coin expert - let alone three.

This is good>
PCGS May 1990 - State of the Art
https://www.numismaticnews.net/may-29-1990




A dipped coin sold as original is deception by definition.

Q. How many dipped Australian coins for sale include the word dipped in their item description?
A. Almost none.

It removes metal, removes toning, and obfuscates it's provenance and pedigree - and while not a cleaned coin in the usual context, it has been altered.

NE:



You have the patience of a saint.

No, not even close. Deception, like fraud, requires intent. As stated a properly dipped coin is undetectable so unless the seller dipped it himself, there is no deception.

"Deception,like fraud, requires intent". Total rubbish. People can be deceived in many ways including by sellers ignorance and carelessness. Look at how many coins have been mistreated by rough handling and polishing and then ignorant sellers who come into possession of such coins sell them and call them uncirculated, gem, BUnc, proof etc. So although the ignorant seller has no intention to deceive (lie) they still have committed unintended deception (an untruth) on the buyer.
Also the expression "properly dipped" to many purists is as much an oxymoron as would be properly polished or properly whizzed or properly tooled.
When detection methods improve many a currently undetectable light dipping might become detectable. What will that do to either the ability to slab former "properly dipped" coins or their values?

Just because the seller is ignorant doesn't mean the buyer hasn't been deceived.
So if an expensive purchase comes back with a No Grade on the slab you would reply "Who cares"?
Also if a coin looks BUnc after dipping but takes on a weird colour after a few years you wouldn't care?
Many of the fakes I own (including those in PCGS slabs) can only be detected with a loupe. So if you can't detect a fake with your naked eye you couldn't care less?

They always do for everything. The varieties are a trickier part of it as some are automatic, others you have to pay to have on the label but they will in the sense of authentic or not. Some label mistakes are simply they hit the wrong number keying it in. I know that is frustrating but with all the different numbers and millions of coins a year that does happen sometimes.




The whole grading time thing is an internet rumor. They obviously don't spend an hour on every coin but they take the time they need to. There is no countdown timer saying time to move on times up. Many coins only take a few seconds others take a lot longer.

Do fakes get through sometimes yes, as fakes have gotten better. It's exactly why they developed the AI gold shield program to help with that knowing that they have to try and stay a step ahead. Coins are a lot like guns and body armor, it's a back and forth where sometimes the other side has to do something before you can know how to beat it.

That said if they certify a fake they will pay up. There is a process and they do stick by it, but you have to go about it the right way which I have tried to help people with in the past. The fake itself when it's that good can often be worth more than the real coin as they are collectable in their own right and they won't overpay to counter that if money is the concern.




A properly dipped coin you cannot tell it was. Many people claim they can based off the look, that's just not how it works. They guess because it wasn't toned, but a coin in the middle of a roll or stored well ect looks the exact same. Dipping is perfectly fine and in some cases saves a coin from what was on it when done right with the right coins.









Which everyone on the planet has done including yourself if that is the impossible standard you want to hold something too.




Fakes have nothing to do with dipping. Non dipped coins can change colors after a few years as well.

If you want to hold things to these standards it would be best to avoid coins all together as anything can change color depending how you store it, where you live ect. You are applying a lot of things to dipping that applies to all coins.

Most people really don't understand what dipped coins look like done right or how they react. They just hear things about them or see some bad ones and assume it is a bad thing. It's only bad when done wrong or if you wanted a toned coin and it took that away.

Dipping is by far the most misunderstood subject when it comes to coins

I couldn't disagree more, I think it's exactly the opposite.