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 Replies: 10 / Views: 2,166 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
549 Posts |
Has anybody ever found an S-mint 1909 penny, which was so worn that the mint mark was not visible to the naked eye and the seller never bothered to check it closely?
I ask this because I've found three 1909-VDB pennies in lots where the seller expressly stated that there are no VDBs. In all cases, the penny was worn and the VDB was not easily visible to the naked eye, but it was very clear with magnification. I know the 1909-VDB isn't worth much, especially in worn condition, but I can't help but wonder if the same thing often happens with a worn mint mark. Even in poor condition, a worn S-mint 1909 pennies will have some value and it seems (in my very limited experience) that the sellers and dealers aren't looking over highly-worn 1909 cents with a fine-toothed comb.
Thinking about it, I suppose it's possible that they check very closely for the mint mark and once they know it isn't there, they don't bother wasting their time looking for the V.D.B..
Edited by mahgobbi
01/22/2008 12:31 pm
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Valued Member
United States
226 Posts |
I imagine that if you couldn't see the mint mark due to wear you would also not be able to read the date clearly enough to know that it was a 1909
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Valued Member
United States
328 Posts |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
812 Posts |
To answer the question, no I have never found a cent with the mint mark so worn, that it appeared not to have one. (Or, to be more accurate, if I have, I likewise did not recognize it for what it was.)
It does stand to reason that if the mint mark were that worn the date would be, too. However, it is not all that uncommon for design elements to be lost due to a filled die. Grease or other foreign matter gets into the die, then coins struck are missing (to various degrees) some elements of the design. I'd think that there is a pretty good chance that there are coins out there that were minted in Denver or San Francisco that appear to not have a mint mark to the naked eye, even though the date is clear. There's no reason that a 1909 cent minted in San Francisco might not be one of them.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
12437 Posts |
I can tell you this much- if Philadelphia had minted cents in 1922, there would be no such thing as a 1922 "no D" since it would look just like a Philly coin.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
20753 Posts |
I've found many, many Mint error Lincoln Cent coins where the D had not made it in the Minting process. Why half of the ones in my collections are all D's but the D doesn't show. These are as rare as the 14 Plain.   I suspect that many are in reality S Mint coins also. So just how would a person know the difference between a D or S coin where the Mint mark is not there? |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
812 Posts |
I suspect the real question here is whether it might be profitable to pick up as many 1909 and 1909-VDB cents as possible, and examine them under high magnification to see if there might be a remnant of an 'S' that had been missed.
I think it awfully unlikely, but possible. For a while at least there should be a steady market for the "rejects" from such a project, so I suppose it wouldn't hurt to try.
If you find one, then EVERYONE will be doing the same!
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Valued Member
United States
60 Posts |
A little off topic, but I got a 1914 D cent so worn I can barely make out the date and mint mark with 16x. loupe. It fills a space in the album.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
914 Posts |
Interesting topic as I just found a 1909-S where the '09' was so worn, that it was almost unreadable.
Unfortunately there is no way that I can tell if the VDB was ever on there.
Since there is four known S position, could someone deduce whether or not a 1909-S is a VDB just from the mintmark location?
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
20753 Posts |
In reality if a 09S VDB is so worn it requires an electron microscope to visulize the information, it may well be nice to fill a hole in an album but I wouldn't try selling it. There are many people now using all types of chemicals to attempt to bring back dates and mint marks worn off. However, in the process, they distroy more than they accomplish.
For the ones you have if you cannot see an S or the VDB with an 16X magnifier, I would just use it as a hole filler until a real one is found.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
914 Posts |
That's exactly my intent carl, just a simple hole filler. I'm sure I'll never put a real S-VDB in this $20 Lincoln Cent folder. I'd be tickled pink if I could stick this in the VDB slot even without ever being able to ever see the markings. |
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Replies: 10 / Views: 2,166 |
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Posted 02/21/2008 5:27 pm
