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Canadian Coin Approval Service?

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doubleeagle59's Avatar
Canada
2495 Posts
 Posted 01/10/2017  10:57 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add doubleeagle59 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I find Hugh Powell to be a rather pleasant and courteous dealer.

However, his constant 'PQ' blue marker comments on his inventory is overdone to say the least.

Additionally, I have always found his pricing to be rather high, although it's been a few years since I've made a purchase from him.
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NumisCat's Avatar
Canada
288 Posts
 Posted 01/10/2017  11:11 am  Show Profile   Check NumisCat's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add NumisCat to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Experience can be a harsh teacher, but is the best way to learn sometimes...


Amen to that
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Canada
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 Posted 01/10/2017  11:16 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add nickelsguy to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
If you can not grade you do not then have the basic required skill to safely buy better grade or better date coins in today's market place. To rely on opinions of others is fool hardy. To pay twice for opinions then becomes good money after bad. The answer is simple. Learn to grade yourself.
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NumisCat's Avatar
Canada
288 Posts
 Posted 01/10/2017  11:28 am  Show Profile   Check NumisCat's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add NumisCat to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@nickelsguy Again, it's one thing to say "learn to grade," but the reality is that burgeoning collectors need help to get to that point. To dismiss what's involved in the processes of learning to grade, a never-ending pursuit of knowledge I might add, is fool hardy. That process includes finding a mentor, looking at thousands of coins, endless research etc. A sticker that recognizes quality does not do a disservice to those looking to learn. It only helps.

For those of us relatively well-versed in the nuances of grading, there is no rule that says you have to send your coins in to get stickered. To be sure, dealers might take advantage of such a service in order to boost sales, but no one would force knowledgeable collectors to pay a premium they might not otherwise pay for a quality coin.
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5589 Posts
 Posted 01/10/2017  11:40 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add okiecoiner to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
"but the reality is that burgeoning collectors need help to get to that point"

Burgeoning collectors are not the ones that may need this service (if it's needed at all). For this service you need the extremely high end collector with a thick wallet and he/she's not going to buy the coin without seeing it in hand. There are any number of sites/guides that can teach a "burgeoning" collector how to grade, as well as every show and auction that is held that supplies good photography. To me, it's just another hook to try to get into people who see the stickers and then feel that they are forced to get the nicest and latest third party opinion fad in TPG's that are not even consistent across the board to start with.
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NumisCat's Avatar
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 Posted 01/10/2017  11:58 am  Show Profile   Check NumisCat's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add NumisCat to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I think you're overlooking the importance of actually looking at coins just for the sake of learning. I'm not saying new collectors should jump in the pool and start buying up approved coins without knowledge or experience. That's the last thing I'm trying to impart. The point is that such a service would distinguish properly graded, unprocessed coins from the crap, which all gets mixed together and local and national shows, and auctions. There are new/young collectors who go to shows to look at coins who would benefit from simply seeing coins considered solid for the grade or original. Same thing goes for auction lot viewing, which has been always been one of the best ways of learning to grade.

Reactions to TPG grading were the same 30 years ago (wasn't around then, for anyone wondering). "Who needs someone else's opinions if one or both parties know how to grade?" Same thing happened in the States when CAC was introduced 10 years ago. "Who needs an opinion of an opinion?" The fact is the hobby will evolve. So too should collectors. Embrace the change and see the good it can do.
Edited by NumisCat
01/10/2017 12:00 pm
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doubleeagle59's Avatar
Canada
2495 Posts
 Posted 01/10/2017  1:05 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add doubleeagle59 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Reactions to TPG grading were the same 30 years ago (wasn't around then, for anyone wondering). "Who needs someone else's opinions if one or both parties know how to grade?" Same thing happened in the States when CAC was introduced 10 years ago. "Who needs an opinion of an opinion?" The fact is the hobby will evolve. So too should collectors. Embrace the change and see the good it can do


OK, I get what you're saying.

But let me ask you... do you draw the line at second opinions or perhaps a third opinion, or maybe even a fourth.

How many of these extra stickers are too many?

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Canada
5324 Posts
 Posted 01/10/2017  1:41 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add john100 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
You know if you have a 10000.00 or more coin and it's going to a major auction a CAC beanie probably will be worth a few more bids than the similar graded coin without, as such might gain a few hundreds to thousands depending on the coins value. The trick is to gain aceptance
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NumisCat's Avatar
Canada
288 Posts
 Posted 01/10/2017  2:29 pm  Show Profile   Check NumisCat's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add NumisCat to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I don't think we need to sticker stickers. Logic and rationality should not go out the door here. But the existence of an approval service is not a slippery slope where collectors lose all sense.
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 Posted 01/10/2017  3:15 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add nickelsguy to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Who will gauge as to if the sticker is accurate or maybe they will think your coin is in the top of the stickered sticker zone. There are very FEW who can consistently tell a MS65 from a 66 let alone select the top percentile of a given grade. The CAC sticker is a joke. Typical of today's society where people want an easy way out or someone else to blame. LEARN to grade then rely on yourself. You will not need an opinion of an opinion of an opinion.
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Wade's Avatar
Canada
2781 Posts
 Posted 01/10/2017  5:14 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Wade to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
from the front page of the CaC website:

"CAC is an active bidder on many CAC coins. In fact, CAC has purchased over $275 million of CAC verified coins"

so besides "verifying" the grades I now get to bid against them as well? or am I missing something ?

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Pacificoin's Avatar
Canada
5397 Posts
 Posted 01/10/2017  5:29 pm  Show Profile   Check Pacificoin's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Pacificoin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I think my good friend and fellow dealer from Oregon , Alex summed it up quite nicely ." Most people are clueless when it comes to grading coins , but they sure don't mind writing large cheques for coins in the right holders with the proper stickers" . His words not mine. The statement does have a certain Ring of truth to it though.
Today there are an awful lot of people who buy large dollar amount coins and other collectibles because they can, not because they have any interest in them. They are hoping to make big bucks on an investment some time down the road.
All the slab or sticker to them is , is a needed form of some kind of guarantee or assurance. Thus the evolution of first slab then sticker.
To a true student of Numismatics these assurances are neither necessary or useful. However when that Collectors estate or the collector themself sells off the collection in a Heritage or other big name auction, it is all going to be slabbed before it ever gets gavelled . This is the only way it will ever bring top dollar.
Edited by Pacificoin
01/10/2017 5:35 pm
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doubleeagle59's Avatar
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2495 Posts
 Posted 01/10/2017  8:57 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add doubleeagle59 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I agree Pacificoin.......

I once spent a few hours with an owner of one of the top Canadian collections ever assembled and I was flabbergasted at his lack of grading knowledge.

He didn't have a clue...........but he was loaded.
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 Posted 01/11/2017  11:50 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DBM to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Perhaps there is room for such a service.
Of late we've seen three Chinese counterfeits make their way into CCCS holders.
All three are from just one submitter, a member of this forum.
Is this just the tip of the iceberg?
If not for this forum these three would be sitting for sale somewhere.
Who's watching the henhouse?
"Dipping" is not considered cleaning...
-from PCGS website
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SPP-Ottawa's Avatar
Canada
10459 Posts
 Posted 01/12/2017  4:51 pm  Show Profile   Check SPP-Ottawa's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add SPP-Ottawa to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
DBM - I believe those were ICCS holders, not CCCS, just to clarify.

I also believe it was a customer in his shop that first spotted the obverse inconsistency in the ICCS holder. The CCF member then posted here to see if anyone else would spot it....
"Discovery follows discovery, each both raising and answering questions, each ending a long search, and each providing the new instruments for a new search." -- J. Robert Oppenheimer

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