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 Replies: 22 / Views: 2,069 |
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Pillar of the Community
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650 Posts |
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Bedrock of the Community
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12057 Posts |
VF35 and a nice example of the 1897 Snow S-1 "1 In Neck", with a bonus reverse rim Cud -- unfortunately, it has been cleaned, and fairly recently at that, and that drops the value at least 60% in my opinion. My personal preference would be to hold out for an uncleaned example with natural surfaces, but it's your collection. Member ANA - EAC - TNA - SSDC - CCT #890 "Most of the things worth doing in the world had been declared impossible before they were done." -- Louis D. Brandeis |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
8521 Posts |
Nice coin. I don't believe it's been cleaned or the various dark spots would be gone.
Oregon coin geek.....*** GO BEAVS ! ! ! ***
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Bedrock of the Community
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12057 Posts |
Carbon spots over retoning due to improper rinsing? Look at, for instance, the difference between T and E in the 3nd photo's UNITED and at the difference in color around the devices; the color's wholly inconsistent with the wear grade and very unnatural for a mid-VF IHC, being closer to a low-mid % RB uncirculated. Member ANA - EAC - TNA - SSDC - CCT #890 "Most of the things worth doing in the world had been declared impossible before they were done." -- Louis D. Brandeis |
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
650 Posts |
Paralyse, you are right about this being a Snow-1 (MPD-001). To me, the "1 in the neck" is the best misplaced date varieties in the IHC series. As for holding out for a better one, I've only found the 1897 Snow-1 one other time and the auction got quickly beyond my budget. So, while they are out there, they are hard to find. EDIT: I just looked on ebay and found several auctions for this variety, but I quit using ebay years ago for reasons too numerous to list in one post. I know it's VF (no way it can be XF-40), but I don't know the fine art of determining which VF grade (VF-20, VF-25, VF-30, or VF-35). You said VF-35, which would be great. Help me out, what did you see to say VF-35? Oh, the reverse rim Cud, is that at about the 3 o'clock position? I didn't even notice it or I thought is was a rim damage. I would not hold too much faith this is the true color. I think the poor lighting is making these photos look like the color is off. When I had the coin in hand (in a 2 x 2), the color looked ok to me. That said, a lot of these old Indian cents were cleaned "back in the day." I don't see aggressive abrasion marks. I could probably live with "lightly cleaned" if the price is right. Edited by batboy
03/04/2017 08:23 am
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
12057 Posts |
I agree that better photos will help make a determination. I was thinking more of a dip than an abrasive cleaning when I posted. Yes, 3:00 looks like a reverse rim Cud, I don't see any matching area on the obverse to suggest PMD, but photos out of the flip will help. The S-1 is a Main Line Red Book variety and suffers from the " Red Book Effect", which drives up premiums despite its relative availability compared to scarcer varieties within the series that don't get as much "publicity" such as the 2 Shallow N reverses of 1871 (particularly the MPD S-5), the 1867/67 S-1, and the 1883 DDR-801/S-6. My reason for VF-35 is the overall sharpness of the area around the eye, lips, lower headdress feathers, and reverse shield contrasted with the flatness of the upper feathers, ribbon, hair above the ear, and lower wreath. A true XF Indian will show more sharpness in those areas, without having visible separation of the right side of the ribbon and the lower hair; in AU, the separation will be clearly defined. The diamonds are not an indicator of sharpness since they vary with strike and die state. We can differentiate sharpness (wear) from strike weakness because of the details I mentioned above -- strike weakness tends to affect detail at all points of relief, whereas wear due to circulation affects high relief points first while leaving sharper details in protected lower areas, as seen on your coin. This is just my opinion -- I am not an expert on the series, just a hobbyist, so if one of the IHC gurus that hangs out around CCF sees that I made a mistake, please correct me (gently!) Member ANA - EAC - TNA - SSDC - CCT #890 "Most of the things worth doing in the world had been declared impossible before they were done." -- Louis D. Brandeis |
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Pillar of the Community
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8521 Posts |
People don't dip Indians . If they did it would be a gaudy pink. I've cleaned IHC's every way possible so I could learn what a cleaned IHC looks like. I kept getting burned with cleaned coins till an old guy told me to find every cleaning agent I could and practice cleaning and retoning culls until I could spot a cleaned coin a mile away. Oregon coin geek.....*** GO BEAVS ! ! ! ***
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Bedrock of the Community
 United States
18712 Posts |
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Bedrock of the Community
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12057 Posts |
If 52Raymo says it's not cleaned I am inclined to agree based on his knowledge of the series. :)
Member ANA - EAC - TNA - SSDC - CCT #890 "Most of the things worth doing in the world had been declared impossible before they were done." -- Louis D. Brandeis |
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Pillar of the Community
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650 Posts |
Is there any other guide to value on this MPD variety other than PCGS or averaging past ebay auctions? |
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Bedrock of the Community
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12057 Posts |
Rick Snow @ Eagle Eye Rare Coins (EERC) usually has a few in stock; you can search his site; otherwise, the past auction values is the most effective and accurate way to get a good idea. You might also ask Rick for his opinion on the coin and what he thinks it might bring.
Member ANA - EAC - TNA - SSDC - CCT #890 "Most of the things worth doing in the world had been declared impossible before they were done." -- Louis D. Brandeis |
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Bedrock of the Community
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94367 Posts |
Good advice. I'll say VF-35 and agree the color does not look natural for the grade.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
650 Posts |
Ok, I hear what you guys are saying and I'm seriously rethinking. Found another one (PCGS slabbed). Rather than start a new thread, thoughts on this one:   |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
650 Posts |
Just for fun, I'm posting a beauty that is way way way out of my budget. But, even though I'm on a diet, I can still look at the menu. Enjoy.   |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
8521 Posts |
How much do they want for the first 1897 you posted ?
Oregon coin geek.....*** GO BEAVS ! ! ! ***
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Pillar of the Community
United States
650 Posts |
The last one costs an arm and a leg. The first one is only a finger and a toe.
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Replies: 22 / Views: 2,069 |
Posted 03/04/2017 02:18 am
