PCGS Value Guide?

It represents something you wish you could get for your coins.

The PCGS guide is "optimistic", to say the least. I would probably dance in the street if I could get those kinds of prices for my coins.

The other item that was not brought up is that just because you submit your coins to them does not mean they will be graded. I have never used them because of this exact reason. I have talked to other patrons in the coin store I go into and they say that on average they are lucky if 1 out of 10 coins is graded, then to do that you need to pay for the service ($20-30 average PER coin) and then any membership fees. If you are not into high end coins and specialise in them then stay away. If you are buying coins from someone and they quote the PCSG guide then run away. A lot of newer collectors get set up by the false idea of buying a coin for $10 that PCGS says is worth thousands, do not fall for it. A fair amount of dealers have a price guide that they go by, check your local dealers and see what they use in there store.

Knowledge, Experience, Willingness to spend the time on the first two. No one is born with the ability to grade coins, it takes a lot of time and effort. Grading guides are helpful, old auction catalogs, classes or learning at coin clubs, looking at a lot of graded coins and comparing. As far as I know, all of the major grading companies have large reference groups of coins as they need to check also to maintain specific quality. It is financially not possible for many of us to have a comparison set in all types, but if you have a passion for morgans, then you can form a set of graded Morgans in a common date and come close to their grade once you understand what is being graded. When you have educated yourself and have experience, you won't have many bodybags. It takes the effort. If you are going to use PCGS, buy their grading guide and see what influences their grading. I disagree with their cleaning standards, but if I want the grading, I have to abide by it. The nice thing about PCGS and the other better TPG companies, is the knowledge that if you are unexpectantly yanked to the mint in the sky, there is something your family can depend on to get a fair price for your coins and not have a local "coin person" come in and take all for peanuts. If my 1955/55 lincoln is in a PCGS holder, they can't tell my son it is a fake and worthless, as he knows what the holder represents and where to check the values.

I agree the PCGS guide seems high, and it is for raw coins that may have problems ( no offense to anyone, just looking at the bodybagging ratio), but I feel it is worth the difference in the long run and the guide IMO isn't far off, but it should be held for PCGS only. The interesting thing is I have some of the first "Photo certificate" graded ANACs from the 80s and they are even more conservative than PCGS is today. Standards are going lower I think in all companies. IMHO.

Jim

Jim, I think you have a great point. If I had higher grade coins then I would send them in also. It is tough at this time because of my budget and financial situation to do so. PCGS keeps a great return in price and is very well known among collectors, what ever you put into will most likely never go down in price. My advice is for the beginners like myself that may not have the cream of the crop and want to look at other ways to protect our investment.

I have always considered the PCGS guide to be high, even for coins that are in PCGS slabs. I decided to do a little comparison to verify. I went to the price guide on teletrade.com, which shows actual prices of coins that sold. I checked for all Large Cents that sold in the last 60 days that were in PCGS slabs. There was 1 coin out of 6 that sold for more than the PCGS price, the rest sold for a good bit less.

1851 MS64BN sold for $380 PCGS $450
1851 AU55BN sold for $150 PCGS $200
1853 MS63BN sold for $260 PCGS $350
1854 EF40BN sold for $50 PCGS $70
1854 VF30BN sold for $65 PCGS $40
1856 EF45BN sold for $50 PCGS $70

This is a pretty small sample, but it certainly indicates that the PCGS price guide is very optimistic. I think if you checked any coin series against slabbed coins that have sold on teletrade or heritage the results would be similar. I know that coins slabbed by PCGS will sell for slightly more than similarly graded coins slabbed by other reputable TPGs; I don't think they will sell for the prices PCGS claims.

DCV,

Sorry I missed part of your reply. Yes, most coins in most collections do not need TPG in my opinion. A new collector probably has obtained the coins ( unless it is an inheritance) close to market, and hopefully any rare they bought was already TPG, but for my purpose which is to protect value for my family and insure the coins are protected well for the future, TPG brings some relief to my mind. Also grading is a moving curve over the years. For instance I have a 1884-s morgan which I had graded in the early 80s. It graded ANACs "Photo Certificate" AU-55 ( ANACs didn't use AU-58 then) , so it was just one grade away from MS which has a significant price increase. Being inexperienced in grading then, I accepted it as fact and put it in plastic coin shell myself. Even today, I can't see where the "wear" occurred, so I am going to send it away soon to be regraded. I know a person that has his keys TPG and then breaks them out to put in a cardboard album collection ?. The Label is rescued and glued to the space nearby. I can't figure his logic. Hey, have a nice day collecting!

Jim

trdhrdr007 used a small sample to make a point. I think he has the right idea. We can all theorize forever, but it is actual data that will best demonstrate the situation.

I took a slightly larger example to see how the numbers would play out. I chose a random raw coin from my collection and used MS66 as a grade for comparison. The coin is a 1930 "full head" Standing Liberty quarter. I logged the price of every 1930 FH MS66 Standing Liberty quarter found in the Heritage Auction Archives into a spreadsheet and did a comparison. All were graded by either PCGS or NGC.

This is what I found:

There were 83 examples of this coin in the archive.
Of them, 53 were graded by PCGS and 30 by NGC.

The average price for the all coins sold was $1,152.24
The average price for the PCGS graded coins was $1,228.90
The average price for the NGC graded coins was $1,016.79
The PCGS Price Guide lists this coin at $1,775.00

Based on these figures:
The PCGS PRICE GUIDE value is 54% higher than the average selling price.
The PCGS PRICE GUIDE value is even 44% higher than the average selling price of coins they graded.

Even though this sample is by no means comprehensive or conclusive, I think there is significant evidence that the PCGS Price Guide may be a little "optimistic" as many of you aptly put it.

One interesting thing that came out of the data is the difference in average values per each grading service.

Coins graded by PCGS averaged a 21% higher selling price than those graded by NGC.
This is not the result of an extremely high fluke sale. The prices are fairly even spread throughout the spectrum as you will see in the original data below.

So while this is not a dependably accurate example of the whole grading/value issue, if it were, one could conclude that:

If you have a gem that you plan to have graded, you should send it to PCGS but you should not expect to realize the price listed in their Price Guide.

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Original Data:

PCGS GRADED (53 COINS)
$718.75
$825.00
$977.50
$977.50
$1,035.00
$1,035.00
$1,035.00
$1,050.00
$1,063.75
$1,092.50
$1,092.50
$1,092.50
$1,092.50
$1,092.50
$1,104.00
$1,104.00
$1,121.25
$1,150.00
$1,150.00
$1,150.00
$1,150.00
$1,150.00
$1,150.00
$1,187.95
$1,187.95
$1,207.50
$1,207.50
$1,207.50
$1,207.50
$1,216.70
$1,250.00
$1,265.00
$1,265.00
$1,265.00
$1,265.00
$1,265.00
$1,265.00
$1,265.00
$1,265.00
$1,265.00
$1,265.00
$1,322.50
$1,380.00
$1,380.00
$1,380.00
$1,380.00
$1,380.00
$1,495.00
$1,495.00
$1,667.50
$1,725.00
$1,840.00
$1,955.00
$65,131.85 PCGS TOTAL

NGC GRADED (30 COINS)
$805.00
$805.00
$862.50
$862.50
$862.50
$891.25
$891.25
$920.00
$920.00
$920.00
$920.00
$920.00
$920.00
$920.00
$948.75
$948.75
$977.50
$977.50
$977.50
$977.50
$1,035.00
$1,035.00
$1,092.50
$1,121.25
$1,121.25
$1,150.00
$1,265.00
$1,293.75
$1,495.00
$1,667.50
$30,503.75 NGC TOTAL