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Grosso Of Enrico Dandolo

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austrokiwi's Avatar
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 Posted 10/25/2018  10:39 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add austrokiwi to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
I have been hunting for one of these for several years. Unable to get a good example I surrended and purchased a low grade example. Unfortunately am underwhelmed by it so my hunt will continue. One question could someone with more experience confirm that is of Enrico Dandolo. I purchased form a reputable Italian Auction house but some times mistakes happen
Grosso-Of-Enrico-Dandolo

Edit. I used different lighting.. now I am pretty sure it is Enrico Dandolo ( 1192- 1205). identifying script is H Dandol
Grosso-Of-Enrico-Dandolo
Edited by austrokiwi
10/25/2018 11:02 am
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 Posted 10/25/2018  11:11 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tdziemia to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I am curious if you were looking specifically for a grosso of this doge?
I think slightly later grossi can be gotten in nice grade for a reasonable price.

Regardless, I think these are great coins with an enormous amount of history. First, there is the distinctly byzantine look. Second, the religious imagery with Christ pantokrator on one side, and St. Mark blessing the doge on the other. Finally, these coins document a period in history when Venice was a world power, financial, political and military.

Edited by tdziemia
10/25/2018 11:15 pm
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 Posted 10/26/2018  01:57 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add austrokiwi to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I am curious if you were looking specifically for a grosso of this doge?
I think slightly later grossi can be gotten in nice grade for a reasonable price.


You might similarly ask why do people buy widows mites? Its the story. Later Grosso are cheaper but the are not the GROSSO. This example cost with BP €347.00. I expect to pay close to a €1000.00 for a high grade example if I can find one!!

For those who do not know; The story( as brief as I can make it):

Prior to Enrico Dandolos rule the coin of Europe was the denaro/silver penny. A small, often weighing less than a gram, light weight coin. While Europe was still an economic back water the Denaro was perfectly adequate. As Europe developed and started to redirect the trade routes back to the west/away from Constantinople, there was a demand for larger weight silver coins. around 1194( just after the start of Enricos rule the Serenissma approved the striking of the grosso to meet this need. It is generally believed that Venice was the fist state to produce the needed large Silver coin. MY reading suggests that it is quite possible other states had already produced "grosso" but it was the Venice coin that literally changed the world.

I won't go into all the detail... for those interested I suggest you read up on the travesty that was the fourth Crusade. just Prior to that Crusade the old half blind Doge( Enrico) had overseen the conclusion of a valuable trade treaty with Egypt. When the POpe called for the fourth Crusade and can just Imagine how the old half Blind Doge reacted. The pope had decided this latest expedition would start with an invasion of Egypt. Despite this Venice agreed to transport Crusaders( those who decided to depart from Venice). This would require a significant number of new ships. The Denaro was just too small to pay the Galley Builders, Ships provedores and sailors. So if it hadn't already been struck, the first Grosso was now struck in large numbers to enable the fourth Crusade. It was still very much a farce as the costs were phenomenal. The Crusaders agreed to pay the Venetians 80-85 thousand marks of silver to cover the costs but only paid a total of 50,000 marks in two payments( 35000 and 15000) this was such a financial threat to Venice Enrico did the only thing he could... he took over the leadership of the Crusade. To help pay for the building supplying and crewing of the Galleys First the Crusaders helped Venice subdue the colony of Zadar( some write "Zara"). Then in 1204, under the misguided aim of restoring the rightful ruler to the throne that Crusade sacked Constantinople. As the Crusade had turned against Christians it had been excommunicated( just after the invasion of Zadar) by the Pope. Later excommunications of Venice would have devastating effects on the Republic but, during the Fourth Crusade it was a particularly pointless move. Pointless as the people who might loot Venice were the very Crusaders who were under the control of the Venetians. The sack of Constantinople fatally wounded Byzantium( it never really recovered politically and economically and its decline accelerated after the sacking) Venice received over 150,000 marks worth of the loot( you can see some of it on (and in) St marks in Venice today. The Pope despite his protestations did not decline his share of the loot. The Grosso that helped pay for this travesty became the foremost trade coin in the Levant. It was imitated widely and in the development of modern coinage that coin is arguably the direct ancestor of the US dollar.

the need for the Grosso forced the development of minting technology. If you put a gold Florin beside a Venetian Grosso you can see that the gold florin/Ducat/ Guilden/Escudo)have I spelt that correctly) are gold off metal strikes of Grosso. So the evolution of modern Coinage( only identifying the key coins in the process and skipping over intermediate developments):

Venetian Grosso======> Gold Florin======>Joachimthaler Guilden Groschen ( the Habsburg 1486 Guilden Groschen was a show coin and cost more to make than it was worth)=======> Dutch Lion Thaler ( this was the first Silver dollar sized coin used in the American Colonies) which was the coin that is the true ancestor of the American Dollar. Many people believe it was the Scottish that created the term "dollar" from the dutch word Daalder( from thaler). However this is a UK centric Myth. there is no evidence for the Scottish claim. IN the American Colonies the Dutch Lion Thaler( Daalder) was nickked named the Dog Dollar and it was in North America that the word Dollar was "coined"

So for me the Grosso of Enrico Dandolo allows me to reach out and touch the sacking of Constantinople, the rise of Western European economic power, the end of the eastern Roman Empire, and the development of the Dollar. A later Grosso just would not mean so much to me in comparison to all that.
Edited by austrokiwi
10/26/2018 02:17 am
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tdziemia's Avatar
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 Posted 10/27/2018  07:31 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tdziemia to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Great history lesson, as I had thought the grossso/gros/groat/groschen/grosz originated in medieval France.

And now I understand your quest!

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 Posted 10/27/2018  10:25 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add austrokiwi to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The Gros Tournois was an evolution of the Venetian Grosso. But the French coin a larger heavier coin( if my memory serves me correctly) was first struck in the 1260s).
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 Posted 10/28/2018  10:01 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spence to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@AK, sorry for weighing in a little late on your Grosso, but I agree with your attribution to the 41st Doge Enrico Dandolo. The obv inscription is X.M.DANDOL' .S.M.VENETI. I have it as Biaggi 2761--a rare find indeed!
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 Posted 10/30/2018  02:37 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add austrokiwi to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Just a quick update on the brief history... like all things the story changes with the teller. Looking through the references I have, it seems that the story of the trade Agreement between the Venetians and Egyptians may not be correct. It seems more likely that story was a bit of contemporary anti-Venetian propaganda produced in Palestine. As for Enrico's blindness its generally understood at the end of his life he was blind... some attributing it to a head wound received in battle( as to which battle it seems there is no clear agreement). What is not clear is whether he was blind during his leadership of the Fourth Crusade. General consensus is that he was at least half blind but the contemporary) or near contemporary accounts are not clear on this matter.
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 Posted 10/30/2018  06:33 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tdziemia to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The history is very interesting. There was some earlier history between Venice and Egypt (not relevant to the development of the grosso, but I have a curiosity about patron saints and their origins, which is embodied in my collection)
https://reliquarian.com/2012/12/27/...t-of-venice/
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