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 Replies: 50 / Views: 7,445 |
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
2111 Posts |
Sorry for the late results, I have many graded Morgans and its beyond me how they actually grade these coins. I have coins By TPG that appear better than the Top Grading Co. PCGS I understand its difficult for anyone to grade a coin by a photo. I have used PCGS Photo Grade and by those photos these Morgans don't add up. I will post another challenge to get a point across. SINGER is the winner with the correct guess, You all know your PCGS holders. Please PM me with your address so I can send you your prize. Please tell us how you came to the conclusion, was it a guess or what did you see that others didn't. Here are the full photos of the Morgans. Please feel free to comment. Morgan 1  Morgan 2  Morgan 3  "LOVE THE HUNT!"
Edited by arby96
04/02/2019 2:46 pm
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Moderator
 United States
56855 Posts |
Congrats SINGER. I just can't understand how all three coins grade the same, when even I can see the wear areas on each coin is different. I think this is the perfect,buy the coin not the holder situation. John1  |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2111 Posts |
John1 Wait until you see the next set of pictures. One reason I made this post is to enlighten individuals on how subjective grading is. This is one reason I am not happy with PCGS and their Grading + system they added a few years ago. I think its just another way to take advantage of Their customers. I believe when someone sends in a coin, the sender shouldn't have to state they want an error coin graded and have to pay more money to do so. If an inspector gets a coin and there is an obvious error it should be stated as so without having to pay extra. When I inspect a coin, I look at everything, condition, error, weight, size, ETC. I think as a collector we need a company that is more customer friendly and not out to make as much money as possible with ridicules charges that take no or very little extra time to inspect. There is very little transparency in these grading companies on who gets the best grading done and why. Anybody know a good investigative reporter? I would really like to test my theory about what goes on at these Top grading companies. I truly believe we are being taken advantage of by these companies by big money individuals who always get top graded coins compared to individuals who don't send in coins as often. I believe its a question that needs to be answered. I know I have some ignorance in this field, I also have a lot of coins that have been graded and are in question like coins in this blog. Please let me know what you think. Am I way off base? How can there be such a variance in coins graded the same when there should be a standard to be followed?
"LOVE THE HUNT!"
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
900 Posts |
I'm not convinced that there is such a large variance in the 3 coins that you shared. The strength of the strike is different on all 3, which complicates things. You and PCGS have inspected the coins in hand, so are in a better position to judge.
I would agree with the grades on the second two. Its difficult to appreciate a 64 on the first one, given the cheek. However, the pictures could be making it look worse.
One man's opinion.
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Moderator
United States
56855 Posts |
I don't know much about the TPG's,but I do know that they use specialists on errors and varieties. That's probably why they charge extra for the service.All the TPG's are supposed to use the Sheldon scale,as far as I know. John1 |
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Valued Member
United States
309 Posts |
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Please tell us how you came to the conclusion, was it a guess or what did you see that others didn't. Arby96, Thanks for doing this. I have been trying to work on my grading skills for a few different series - Morgans, Washington quarters and Lincoln Cents. It is a long learning curve. I have come to understand that while grading (an opinion) is always subjective, there are consistencies in the process. The markings on these three coins couldn't be more different but they all fall within the acceptable range for the grade. A LCS owner who has become a good friend of mine once gave me great advice. Just because it's in a TPG holder doesn't necessarily mean it's a great coin for the grade. Others have emphasized "Buy the Coin, not the Holder." In fact, in addition to the monetary factor, this is the primary reason for the CAC certification. Too many collectors are impatient in that they will settle for the grade and not search/wait for the better coin with more eye appeal. There are A LOT of really ugly 64's and some really great looking 63's. If you took them out of the holders and placed them side by side, it would be very easy to reverse the grades. Your contest is the perfect example of this. The range of grades from AU58 to MS65 are reasonable estimates of grades. The bag marks in the fields and on the cheeks on coins 1 and 3 are common and do not detract from the technical grade. They do affect eye appeal as #1 looks gouged and #3 looks lightly touched. That's where the opinions might vary. At first I thought that the appearance of wear on the cap/bonnet on the second coin warranted a lesser grade, perhaps even AU58/MS60, but I think it's more likely due to a somewhat weaker strike. Based on the PCGS holders, it also appears that this may be the evolution in grading practices over the years. Some credence is given to the theory that coins in "Old Green Holders" (OGH's) were graded more strictly and why they are sought out for re-submission. If I were to rate these coins in order of eye-appeal, then it would be #2, #3 and #4. Thanks again for the contest! Singer |
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Valued Member
United States
309 Posts |
I forgot to say, I can't believe I won!!
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Moderator
United States
56855 Posts |
The CAC is just another opinion. I think the grade on a third party holder should be a technical grade using the Sheldon scale,a MS64 is a MS64 is a MS64... John1 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
900 Posts |
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The bag marks in the fields and on the cheeks on coins 1 and 3 are common and do not detract from the technical grade. I am confused by this statement. I thought that luster and contact marks was what differentiates the entire 60-70 scale (as far as technical grade). |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
9796 Posts |
I think the big difference is from the labels, all are very different timeframes in PCGS history. The grading standards are constantly changing and evolving according to them.
"Buy the Book Before You Buy the Coin" - Aaron R. Feldman - "And read it" - Me 2013! ANA Life Member #3288 in good standing since 1981, ANS, Early American Coppers Member (EAC), Colonial Coin Collectors Club member (C4), Conder Token Collector Club member (CTCC), Civil War Token Society (CWTS) member, Liberty Seated Collectors Club (LSCC) & Numismatic Bibliomania Society member (NBS), USMex, Member in good standing, 2¢ variety collector. See my want page: http://goccf.com/t/140440 |
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Moderator
United States
56855 Posts |
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The grading standards are constantly changing and evolving according to them. Are they not using the Sheldon scale anymore? A MS64 is no longer a MS64? I would like to see a technical grade on slabs,and leave the eye appeal up to me  John1 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
6514 Posts |
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I would like to see a technical grade on slabs,and leave the eye appeal up to me. I have to agree. Check out my counterstamped Lincoln Cent collection: http://goccf.com/t/303507 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2111 Posts |
Singer, Its good to get a conversation going in this field. I think another possible concern are the amount of different fees for services is a bit out of control. I believe grading companies should take a More straight hand approach to grading. Look at everything all at once, customers should be able to send in a coin that knows nothing about the coin and the Grading Company tells the customer what they have. It shouldn't be check for that, extra fee, check for this, extra fee, Etc, Etc. Please comment. Singer Please PM me your address, so I can send your prize. Your last message didn't have it on there.
"LOVE THE HUNT!"
Edited by arby96
04/08/2019 01:39 am
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Valued Member
United States
194 Posts |
So I have a question... I have a bunch of morgans in PCS slabs (not PCGS) most say brilliant uncirculated and such... should I be wanting to pay to have them graded? Is it really worth paying all that money to swnd them in?
Edited by thelionwarrior
04/14/2019 11:20 am
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Moderator
United States
56855 Posts |
PCS is not a trusted company. You would need to post pics here to see if they are worth sending to a reputable company. John1 |
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Posted 04/02/2019 1:04 pm
