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 Replies: 16 / Views: 3,141 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3848 Posts |
I bought this proof 1887 Indian Head cent recently for the intent of resale. I figured the best way to go was to get it slabbed by PCGS, as my local coin dealer submits coins for customers like myself. Before I make any regretful decisions, I would like to get opinions from you awesome people in this forum. I have three major questions: 1. Can this make it into a problem-free holder (questionable color)? 2. What could PCGS grade this coin as? 3. What is the potential value of this coin? I can't say I am an expert in proof Indian Head cents, nor can I say I know the difference between a PF63 and a PF64. I can say that there is a decent ding on the brow of Miss Liberty, there is chatter and hairlines in the fields, and there is a pleasant cameo appearance. The coin has a nice brown color, but changes to a rainbow mirror when turned in the light. No wear on the coin, so I believe it definitely not below PF60. My best guess would be PF63BN but that is a shot in the dark. I want to hear from you. Sorry for the photos, I don't own professional equipment, just a loupe and an iPhone. Thanks in advance.          Suffering from bust half fever. Want to learn how to attribute early half dollars by die variety? Click Here: http://goccf.com/t/434955Shoot me a PM if you are looking to sell bust halves. Edited by jacrispies
07/11/2021 2:36 pm
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
8938 Posts |
Grading 19th Century proof from photos are tricky, I'm unable to read the surfaces properly, so I could say maybe as low as PR62 or as high as PR65
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
6566 Posts |
PF-58  |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
94367 Posts |
Tell us about the luster and mirrors on this, please.  to the CCF! |
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Rest in Peace
United States
18456 Posts |
To tell you the truth , in my opinion it just doesn't look like a proof IHC . As Coinfrog says : Tell us about the luster and mirrors . |
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
3848 Posts |
This coin does not have much luster like a bright Morgan dollar, but the field is a mirror surface. A cameo appearance too, so the devices are frosty. It is difficult to demonstrate with the photos, but in hand it is a strong mirror. The photos conceal the appearance, so I tried a variety of angles and lightings. I set my nicest business strike Indian cent next to the proof to compare luster. Included below is the proof 1887 and "unc" 1901 cents for comparison.    Suffering from bust half fever. Want to learn how to attribute early half dollars by die variety? Click Here: http://goccf.com/t/434955Shoot me a PM if you are looking to sell bust halves. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3651 Posts |
The proof IHCs from the late 1880s can be single-struck coins, rather than double-struck. This makes the distinction between proof and business strikes difficult. The "1" appears to line up on the left edge of the denticle. An 1887 proof should have the "1" line up between the denticles. Trying to do this with a photo is tricky, and I'm not entirely sure I hit the target here. The lower left serif of the "1" and denticle need to be exactly at 6:00 for this to work. It is best done with the coin in hand and a translucent straight edge, like a mm scale. EDIT: Uploading the pic would help!  Edited by fortcollins
07/11/2021 5:01 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2869 Posts |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3848 Posts |
Suffering from bust half fever. Want to learn how to attribute early half dollars by die variety? Click Here: http://goccf.com/t/434955Shoot me a PM if you are looking to sell bust halves. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
9792 Posts |
Rick Snows Attribution Guide book lists 7 different die pairings for proof coins in 1887. All have very large variances in the date position. I think this coin looks proof to my eyes. I found this blurb interesting on recolored coins from that date, though to be fair he is talking about business strikes, though I'd say it also applies to proof coins from what I know as well. Quote:
Of course, this does not excuse the high grade
examples that have been chemically altered to simulate
full red coins. The practice was so prevalent in the 1960
- 1990 period that you would have had a 9 in 10 chance
of buying a coin with enhanced color in a typical coin
advertisement offering "BU" coins. Once the original
skin of a coin is stripped, it will quickly react with its
environment, acquiring toning, fingerprints and spots.
Third party certification helps, but should not be relied
upon as total protection. Education is the only way
to protect yourself. Thankfully, with greater collector
access to information through quality color images on
the internet, it is harder for coin processors to succeed. I'd give the coin a PR62BN with a good chance of a details due to recoloring or AT, it was so prevalent for the coins. The rainbow toning is seen on many of these and not necessarily any guarantee that the coin isn't AT. The surfaces in the photo show a very mirror like appearance, which is good. The strike is full and also Proof in it's look. I'd put a value at between $175 and $220 as it is now if it makes it into a straight Proof holder without a details label add $50-$75 to that. Here is one I found sold on ebay PCGS PR63BN https://www.ebay.com/itm/324618113032A GreatCollections PR62BN that sold recently for $230 https://www.greatcollections.com/Co...N-from-photo"Buy the Book Before You Buy the Coin" - Aaron R. Feldman - "And read it" - Me 2013! ANA Life Member #3288 in good standing since 1981, ANS, Early American Coppers Member (EAC), Colonial Coin Collectors Club member (C4), Conder Token Collector Club member (CTCC), Civil War Token Society (CWTS) member, Liberty Seated Collectors Club (LSCC) & Numismatic Bibliomania Society member (NBS), USMex, Member in good standing, 2¢ variety collector. See my want page: http://goccf.com/t/140440 |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
18670 Posts |
my first thought was PR62BN details (recolored or AT)
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
36770 Posts |
The color makes it look like it was dipped at some point, now retoning. PF-62 details would be my guess. Altered surfaces.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3848 Posts |
Thank you all for the variety of opinions and thoughtful responses. I think there is a good chance this can get a details grade. Additionally, with the cost of grading and the likely chance of it coming back details, it won't be worth it to be to send the coin to PCGS besides the fact it would be easier to sell. But I think I will save the time and money and sell it raw. It will be harder to find somebody that would buy a raw coin, but that is a good trade off. If I don't have a buyer, then this will be my first coin in a new project: proof 20th century type set!  Suffering from bust half fever. Want to learn how to attribute early half dollars by die variety? Click Here: http://goccf.com/t/434955Shoot me a PM if you are looking to sell bust halves. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3848 Posts |
Update: I went to a local coin shop to browse, and brought the Indian Head cent with me to ask if the owner was interested. After looking for a bit, I ended up asking him before I left, and he gave me $250 without taking a second glance. He must've had a buyer already lined up. Suffering from bust half fever. Want to learn how to attribute early half dollars by die variety? Click Here: http://goccf.com/t/434955Shoot me a PM if you are looking to sell bust halves. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
9792 Posts |
I was ini the right area of the price wheelhouse then. Good sell! Hope you made some good profit on it.
"Buy the Book Before You Buy the Coin" - Aaron R. Feldman - "And read it" - Me 2013! ANA Life Member #3288 in good standing since 1981, ANS, Early American Coppers Member (EAC), Colonial Coin Collectors Club member (C4), Conder Token Collector Club member (CTCC), Civil War Token Society (CWTS) member, Liberty Seated Collectors Club (LSCC) & Numismatic Bibliomania Society member (NBS), USMex, Member in good standing, 2¢ variety collector. See my want page: http://goccf.com/t/140440 |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
94367 Posts |
I think you were smart to move it along.
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Replies: 16 / Views: 3,141 |
Posted 07/11/2021 2:49 pm
