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Replies: 36 / Views: 7,626 |
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Pillar of the Community
  Sweden
2124 Posts |
@tdziemia, I knew someone must have looked into this.  Very interesting reading. Thanks for sharing! @JohnConduitt, nice to see another Decentius! @livingwater, I am honored to have someone that learned in this thread. When browsing through the online Celators (it ceased publication long before I got into ancients), your article immediately caught my attention. Very well worth reading. And the coins you show are super additions to the thread! The one with Chi-Rho on Constantine's helmet is rare. On your example the Chi-Rho is well visible.
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Pillar of the Community
  Sweden
2124 Posts |
Time for my last coin, at least for now. AE3/4, Constantine I, 335-36 AD, Arles (2nd officina). 1.9 g, 16 mm. RIC 401. One of not too many coins by Constantine the Great that has a Chi-Rho XP sign - although not with his portrait. But this one is surely a mintmark; most Constantinopolis coins do not have it, also on those from Arles it is an exception. The significance of the XP sign was likely known throughout the empire by this time, so perhaps we see the action of a Christian mint master or celator? So no more coins from me, but please do keep adding any ones that you have. I'd love to see them!
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Pillar of the Community
 United Kingdom
1168 Posts |
Thanks for starting this thread @erafjel. The write-up and image of the double maiorina really piqued my interest, as did the other Chi-Rho coins you posted. I hadn't really thought much about the symbolism of the Chi-Rho or the Tau-Rho before, or the emergence of angels from Nike/Victory, so the thread has been a real eye opener.
Thanks also to @travelcoin, @JohnConduitt and @livingwater for the additional information and superb coin illustrations. The "First Christian Symbols on Roman Imperial Coins" is a most interesting read, @livingwater. Thank you.
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Pillar of the Community
  Sweden
2124 Posts |
Thank you, @Novicius. You know I value your "My First Animal On A Coin" thread, with its historical backgrounds to the coins. Happy to give a little something back. 
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4883 Posts |
A diminutive (just 12 mm across) issue of Valentinian II. Note the staurogram (tau-rho) in the lower left field on the reverse. Constatinople mint, RIC IX 86a.   Another of mine, an issue of Valens, Aquileia mint, with a distinct christogram (chi-rho) atop the labarum on the reverse.   One more from my collection, Theododius I (the Great), again with what looks to be a staurogram in the left field on the reverse. I believe this was struck at Cyzicus, and as such it would seem to be to RIC IX 26b. I'd add that there's a transitional aspect to this last coin, something of a juxtaposition between Christianity and Greco-Roman religious beliefs, as evidenced by Victory being shown on the reverse as well. Beyond being a personification, she was in fact a goddess for the Romans just as Nike was to the Greeks. One last point to make is that in any case she certainly conforms to the later concepts of what an angel ought to look like.   A prior thread also touching on this topic: http://goccf.com/t/388894
Colligo ergo sum
Edited by Lucky Cuss 12/06/2021 5:55 pm
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Pillar of the Community
  Sweden
2124 Posts |
Those are great little coins, @Lucky Cuss! Nice to see some from later emperors.
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
905 Posts |
 Constantine I A.D. 327 #1236; nummus 19mm 2.6g CONSTANTINVS MAX AVG; laureate head right SPES PVBLIC; chi-rho atop standard of 3 medallions impaling snake, in left field A. in ex. CONS RIC VII Constantinople 19  Constantine I A.D. 328 #1236; nummus 21mm 3.2g Anepigraphic: diademed head, looking up to heavens CONSTANTINIANA DAFNE; Victory seated l. on cippus, palm branch in left hand and laurel branch in right hand, looking r.; trophy at front, at the foot is a kneeling captive with head turned being spurned by Victory; A in left field. in ex. CONS RIC VII Constantinople—
Edited by Victor 12/07/2021 1:09 pm
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Pillar of the Community
  Sweden
2124 Posts |
Thank you @Victor, real nice additions to the thread!  
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2219 Posts |
Thanks all for posting comments and coin pics. Hi Victor! You are THE MAN for Late Roman Bronze Coins. Your expertise is appreciated. As a collector and dealer you are helpful and honest.
Edited by livingwater 12/08/2021 4:59 pm
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
7935 Posts |
Since the original concept for the thread seems to have wound down after many splendid examples, I'd like to pose a related question for discussion, unless it would be better to start a new thread:
What coin was the first to use a New Testament verse (or similar) as a legend?
I've been learning more about medieval Low Countries coinage, which often imitated types of England and France. So I am aware that the gros tournois of Louis IX with BENEDICTV SIT NOME DNI NRI DEI IHV XPI might be the first (1260s), and that the English noble of Edward III is another famous example.
But were there earlier examples?
The Carolingian temple denier has XPISTIANA RELIGIO, but this seems to still be more in the tradition of erafjel's original concept, of Christian symbols, rather than a verse or phrase (and I realize that maybe it took a larger coin to fit a longer phrase).
Were there examples from Byzantine coinage? I am aware that the early tradition of the Chi Rho would eventually morph into crosses, images of Christ pantokrator and Mary, saints with their names, but I am wondering about verses or phrases.
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Pillar of the Community
  Sweden
2124 Posts |
An interesting topic, indeed! And while I have no problem with extending this thread to coins of later periods - and I think we have to move past Roman times - I think the topic may benefit from having its own thread. Otherwise we may miss those medievalists who do not also trigger on titles about Roman coins. In any event, I think you are correct in pointing to Louis IX as at least the first French king who referred to Jesus on his coins. The gros tournois is one of his examples, he was also first to pick up XPC on his ecu d'or (with the inscription XPC VINCIT XPC REGNAT XPC IMPERAT - Christ conquers, Christ reigns, Christ commands). That was the first gold coin to be minted in France since Carolingian times - eight known specimens I think, I wish it was part of my collection so I could show it, but alas ...  . Louis, also known as Saint Louis (he was canonized in 1297), worked hard to live up to the tradition of the French kings being considered Rex Christianissimus, "The most Christian king." He participated in two crusades, showed pity for the poor, mercy for the rebels, and mutilated the blasphemists. Having a strong Christian message on his coins was completely in line with this. But coinage from other regions I know less about. It would indeed be interesting to see what other examples of early references to Jesus or the Bible there are.
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Pillar of the Community
Russian Federation
5172 Posts |
I'd have thought of HOC SIGNO VICTOR ERIS, but I'm not sure if the background of that phrase disqualifies it.
Anonymous folles had a long Christian legend but I'm not sure it qualified as a phrase as such... failing to think of a better example at the moment. I'd be looking at Byzantine stuff between Justinian and anonymous folles.
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Valued Member
United Kingdom
218 Posts |
Beautiful coins. I've seen one or two while detecting where the XP isn't overlapped, but never really figured out what those were. like * X P X
Are those in the same 'family' or something else?
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1315 Posts |
A Constantinopolis Victory and Prow, ARLES, PCONST with Chi-Rho 
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Pillar of the Community
  Sweden
2124 Posts |
@Gainn: An 'X' instead of an overlapped 'XP' would be in the same "family", I think. That is just an even shorter form of ΧΡΙΣΤΟΣ. (Not to be confused with 'X' used for the number 10, like in the inscription 'VOT X'.) If by '*' you mean an eight pointed star, that is a symbol used on several coins by Constantine the Great. It could represent Sol, an early patron god of his. It is not a Christian symbol anyway. Non-overlapped 'XP' I don't think I have seen on Roman coins ... do you have an example of such a coin? (It does show up later on medieval coins as part of XPC, XPI and similar forms for "Christ".) @Doucet: Thanks, nice contribution! 
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Replies: 36 / Views: 7,626 |