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 Replies: 11 / Views: 1,154 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2724 Posts |
Last year I wrote a post on the "other" forum about the illegal coins and asked if they should remain illegal. I would like to get the opinions of the members here. Please think about your response and give some reasons for your answers. The main illegal coins : 1933 St. Gauden 1974 Lincoln Cent Alluminum 1964-D Peace dollar. Now these coins were all minted in substantial numbers in their time. In the case of the 1933 Saint, some 440,000 coins. The 1974 Lincoln was passed out among the halls of congress in order to garner support. The 64 Peace dollar has been a story of lore since the early days of year. The 33 Saint has some legitimate reasons for the long standing law. Our country was taken off of the gold standard and production halted with all the coins melted. (or so they thought). However, the two other coins listed have roots in Mint. They are simply illegal with no distinct reason. Now other coins have simular "mysterious" mintages and they are perfectly legal. The 1913 Liberty nickel, the 1866 No Motto coins, the 1894-S Dime, and the list could go on and on. Some will certainly argue that the illegal coins are not legal tender, so therefor they cannot be owned legally. No Pattern coin was ever issued by the U.S. Mint for the purpose of commerce or numismatic reasons. There are a handful of coins that were created for the "friends" of the mint. The 1804 Dollars come to the top of the mind. Since there really is no hard and fast rule for what coins can or cannot be legal tender, why keep the big 3 on the most wanted list? Thoughts? |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
980 Posts |
Hi ND With regard to the '33 SG, I don't know enough about the legality of the matter.- story goes that somehow Faruk had an export liscence for one in ww2. 74 lincolns seems clear, if I have the facts correct- mint lent them to congressmen with the undestanding that they were a loan, not a gift. Therefore any out there were pilfered- therefore, alas, no, should not be legal. 64 Peace dollar was never relaeased- same story. If not here, where does one draw the line? We can't have mint workers or worse, politicians getting wealthy because they stole coins that did not belong to them. It's hard enough keeping Denver mint workers from engraving extra husks on quarter dies without the possibilty of having folks make and keep their own rarities. Although I realize it'd be tons of fun to own or sell a 64D Peace dollar. Just my 2 1974 al cents worth Don I'm coming bakc to edit this after reading your post on the "other" board. If mint sold 64Ds to employees, they should be legal. Obviously that would have to be established in court, and someone making such a claim has powerful incentive to say so, even if it isn't true. Are the principals still living- Denevr mint officials who would have been authorized to make such a sale? Edited by SFDukie
03/18/2005 8:17 pm
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Forum Mom
 United States
5877 Posts |
Following that logic though, Don, it would stand to reason that it would be illegal to own a pattern coin since these were never released for circulation either.
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Rest in Peace
United States
2684 Posts |
Is there actually someone in Federal law enforcement trying to enforce these (archaic) laws? With all the other problems out there (pick your favorite: drugs, murder, rape, extortion, embezzlement, felony nose-picking, etc.) I would think that chasing after some poor old coin collector would be mighty low on a cop's list of priorities.
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
2724 Posts |
Well Stephen Fenton would disagree. He was the dealer arrested in the 1933 Saint deal. While one would think that their are more important crimes, it seems as if the secret service considers these 3 coins near the top of the list. Pretty sad given the state of the world today.
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Valued Member
United States
307 Posts |
I see no "cents" in haveing coin that are illegal--I don't think the Gov should be able to tell us some of our money is illegal to own...
Speedy
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Rest in Peace
United States
2684 Posts |
quote:
Originally posted by national dealer
Well Stephen Fenton would disagree. He was the dealer arrested in the 1933 Saint deal. While one would think that their are more important crimes, it seems as if the secret service considers these 3 coins near the top of the list. Pretty sad given the state of the world today.
My gawd! What did they do to him? I would think that this would be a classic example of government waste and inefficiency, especially when there's so many serious counterfeiters and dealers in counterfeit money to chase down (pjd 1966 comes to mind). This could almost make for a good 60 Minutes story. It also reminds me of a few years ago when a little old lady presented Pres. Clinton with a very nice dreamcatcher made from feathers from road-kills. She was arrested by the USF&WS for taking and possessing feathers from an endangered/threatened species, Bald Eagle. That made the news, but I never heard the outcome. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2724 Posts |
End the end, neither of the two dealers had anything happen to them. The story is simple, dealer 1 is shopping the 1933 St. Gauden for just over 2 million. A texas dealer heres of the sale and calls the secret service. The agents posing as potential buyers meet at the Waldorf Astoria hotel in NY. The coin was seized, the dealers arrested. The coin was housed in the world trade center while the law suits were fought. Then moved to Fort Knox in late 2000. Because of the export license granted to King Farouk, this 1 coin is granted immunity. Of course, half the proceeds from the auction plus $20 was awarded to the United States Mint.
According to most, there is at least 1 more 33 Saint out there in private hands.
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Valued Member
United States
307 Posts |
I know a guy that knows a guy that has seen 7 1933 $20 gold pieces--I can't prove that but I think its true--that was years ago...
Speedy
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Rest in Peace
United States
2684 Posts |
quote:
Originally posted by national dealer
End the end, neither of the two dealers had anything happen to them. The story is simple, dealer 1 is shopping the 1933 St. Gauden for just over 2 million. A texas dealer heres of the sale and calls the secret service. The agents posing as potential buyers meet at the Waldorf Astoria hotel in NY. The coin was seized, the dealers arrested. The coin was housed in the world trade center while the law suits were fought. Then moved to Fort Knox in late 2000. Because of the export license granted to King Farouk, this 1 coin is granted immunity. Of course, half the proceeds from the auction plus $20 was awarded to the United States Mint.
According to most, there is at least 1 more 33 Saint out there in private hands.
OK, I think I understand. I was in law enforcement with the National Park Service and had no choice but to respond to citizen complaints, unwarranted and petty as they might have been. That Texas dealer must have had a serious case of "If I can't have it, then nobody can have it.". Did the buyer eventually get the coin? Or was it classified as a "National Treasure" and kept by the Federal Government? |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2724 Posts |
The coin was eventually auctioned jointly with the proceeds going to Fenton and the Mint. This is world's most valuable coin at 7.59 million. The coin believed to be able to break that record is the 1794 Dollar currently held by Rare Coin Wholesalers. They believe this coin will fetch 10 Million plus. Here is the famed 1st dollar held by RCW http://www.rcw1.com/m/1794.php?osCs...0df0cf908cba |
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Forum Mom
United States
5877 Posts |
I find it interesting that there was article about this coin in the September 2004 issue of Boys' Life and neither one of my boys (who have been getting this magazine for quite some time) ever pointed it out to me. Boy, are they in trouble   |
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Replies: 11 / Views: 1,154 |
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Posted 03/18/2005 9:09 pm
