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 Replies: 19 / Views: 2,212 |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
14454 Posts |
I was looking at some Trade dollars (not something I usually do) trying to see if I can spot some fakes. Well these two coins have a bad die marriage but if they are fake (which I feel they have to be to have this die marriage) they are very very good ones (and no not from china either) These coins look like they were struck at the mint to me and if it wasnt for the die marriage I think it would fool alot of people, so I wanted to see what everyone here thought about these, DO NOt BID ON THEM!!! Because I am almost positive they are fakes unless someone that knows more than I do about Trade dollars explains how this marriage happened. Anyhow here are the links http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...555177&fvi=1http://cgi.ebay.com/1878-S-Trade-Do...cmdZViewItem |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2177 Posts |
quote:
Originally posted by Bryan1315
I was looking at some Trade dollars (not something I usually do) trying to see if I can spot some fakes. Well these two coins have a bad die marriage but if they are fake (which I feel they have to be to have this die marriage) they are very very good ones (and no not from china either) These coins look like they were struck at the mint to me and if it wasnt for the die marriage I think it would fool alot of people, so I wanted to see what everyone here thought about these, DO NOt BID ON THEM!!! Because I am almost positive they are fakes unless someone that knows more than I do about Trade dollars explains how this marriage happened. Anyhow here are the links
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...555177&fvi=1
http://cgi.ebay.com/1878-S-Trade-Do...cmdZViewItem
Wow!! And they're asking for $1000 AND no returns? |
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Bedrock of the Community
 United States
14454 Posts |
yep, thats another thing that threw up a red flag, I know we have a counterfit expert here but I cant remember his nick for the life of me, maybe he can tell us how this die marriage happened or how the coin is made because it looks like it was struck and not poured to me
Edited by Bryan1315
06/17/2006 12:02 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
626 Posts |
How can he guarantee that it is authentic without offering returns?
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Pillar of the Community
United States
590 Posts |
I think Swamperbob knows a little about counterfits.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
14454 Posts |
There ya go, swamperbob he is the expert on counterfits I was speaking of just couldnt remember his nick
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1703 Posts |
Guaranteed authentic but no return.  then what good is the guarantee? |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
12437 Posts |
Those look way too nice to NOT be in a slab. So nice in fact, that they must be fake! Besides, I dont trust a guarantee from from someone who cant properly spell the word  Edited by biokemist6
06/19/2006 10:44 am
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
14454 Posts |
I guess everyone agreed because they didnt sell, had those coins been legit and slabbed to prove so they would have went for a pretty good bit. I think more and more people are not buying Trade dollars anymore unless they are slabbed by a top TPG because there are just to many fakes out there and like these some are just to hard to tell the difference. If it werent for the improper die marriage (which the mint never put together) I would have thought they were real myself Edited by Bryan1315
06/19/2006 12:11 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
626 Posts |
I picked up a counterfiet Trade dollar a couple of weeks ago. Bought it darn well knowing that it was a fake. I figured for 15.00, it would make a good study. I have been meaning to post about it, but I have been so dang busy that I haven't had a chance. In due time I will post it and see if you guys can spot the tells. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
986 Posts |
Last year while I was vacationing in China, I picked up several fake Trade dollars for under $1 each (U.S. money, of course). Quite interesting, even if they are obviously very crude fakes. I also had fun with some fake Draped Bust Halves. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5362 Posts |
I can really see the problem with these. They are in fact struck coins - that is fairly certain given the pattern of reflection and I will bet they are silver too. But unless I am blind the collar seams visible on both reverses are simply WRONG. Look for a "circular" line on the raised rim that is NOT concentric with the striking chamber. Because of the slight offset and eccentric positioning it must (in my opinion) be a die feature not a feature created in the striking process. If it is in fact a die feature - they are clearly forgeries made from transfer dies. This die feature is normally seen when a counterfeiter has to add a fraction of a millimeter to the diameter of a die to make up for shrinkage that takes place when crafting a die from high strength plastic.
Based on the auction terms - the high starting price and the fact that these are NOT Certified (as any knucklehead would) - I would treat these as I would poison.
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Valued Member
United States
194 Posts |
Bryan, I too "look" at a lot of auctions and from what I read elsewhere, Trade dollars are very widely counterfieted. For some reason that is beyond me, people will still buy these raw. [:0] I could not imagine buying a coin from ebay with such a reputation unless it was slabbed. Unlike you, I would probably not be able to spot a fake which makes me glad I don't collect them, and I shake my head in wonder at ebay. They allow someone to "gaurantee" with no return policy. [:0] I'm saving these pics in my "fakes" file, so that if I ever decide to collect, I have another reference. Thanks! Margaret |
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New Member
United States
17 Posts |
Estimates range from 95% to 99% of all Trade dollars listed on ebay are fake. Obviously, it's best to avoid sellers from China, but a lot of them have found outlets in the U.S. I noticed a seller yesterday who had such goodies as an 1845-CC Trade dollar and a 1796-CC Seated Liberty dollar. I posted it on the ebay coin board and was surprised to find that they were pulled within 20 minutes, I've never seen ebay react that quickly. |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
14454 Posts |
Thank you swamperbob I knew you would know for sure, I actually just sent you a email without reading this post first to see that you had already responded to it. I knew I had never seen that die marriage before on a legit coin, and this is the first struck forgery I have ever seen and I can tell you I'm impressed
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Valued Member
United States
67 Posts |
Hi- I'm new at this and never heard of counterfeit Trade dollars until today. Would someone please tell me what "bad die marriage" means? Has it got something to do with how the obverse and the reverse relate to each other? How can you tell by looking at a Trade dollar whether or not it's counterfeit? Thanks, Diane |
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Replies: 19 / Views: 2,212 |
Posted 06/17/2006 12:02 pm
