| Author |
 Replies: 15 / Views: 2,194 |
|
|
Valued Member
United Kingdom
438 Posts |
No prizes for correct answers except the satisfaction that you know them! This isn't easy, particularly question 2; 1) In which king's reign did Groats first debut? ANSWERED2) A common misconception in English medieval numismatics is that halfpennies and farthings first appeared in Edward I's reign. When in actual fact did they appear? ANSWERED3) How many Groats are in a Noble? ANSWERED4) When was the short cross penny introduced? ANSWERED5) What is remarkable about the short cross pennies of Richard I and John that is relatively unremarkable about coins issued on the continent at the time?  Edited by Ętheling
08/31/2006 11:46 am
|
|
|
|
Valued Member
United States
230 Posts |
I know the answers (thanks to CoinCraft), but will wait a couple days to give others a chance to find them.
Good quiz, Si!!!
|
|
Moderator
 Australia
16832 Posts |
I have my answers ready to post too. Good job, AEtheling! Couple of head-scratchers there.
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
|
|
Pillar of the Community
Australia
1360 Posts |
|
|
Valued Member
Australia
372 Posts |
Ok , I'll have a crack at it......here goes, Answer to Q1....Edward 1 in 1279 Answer to Q2....Henry 111 1216-1272 [ silver farthings] Answer to Q3....  pass Answer to Q4....Henry 11 [1154-1189] Answer to Q5.... pass again. |
|
Pillar of the Community
Australia
1360 Posts |
3) How many Groats are in a Noble?
ANSWER 1: 1344-1464 there were 20 Groats in a Noble.
ANSWER 2: 1464-1470 there were 25 Groats in a Noble.
Edited by Snooba
08/31/2006 11:20 am
|
|
Valued Member
 United Kingdom
438 Posts |
Right Gnome here's how you did;
Question 1) Correct! Groats first appeared in Edward I's reign, they were however, generally unsuccessful and therefore the denomination went on the back burner until Edward III's reign when they were finally issued in some quantity.
Question 2) Correct as far as farthings go. As far as I am aware farthings first appeared in Henry III's reign (earlier ones may exist but because the coins are of a very small size they were easy to lose and hard to find! So one day who knows earlier ones may just turn up!) As far as Halfpennies go though the answer is incorrect.
Question 4) Correct, they did indeed arrive in Henry II's reign. The year was 1180. Incidentally have have one of the 1180 batch lying around somewhere.
Question 2 is by far the toughest question. Not only because there are two answers (one for halfpennies zand another for farthings) but because most of the internet sources I've met are so adamant that Edward I was the first king to introduced them as new denominations. Which this quiz will show to be pure misinformation. 'Reintroduce' is the word they'd be looking for.
|
|
Valued Member
United Kingdom
438 Posts |
quote:
Originally posted by Snooba
3) How many Groats are in a Noble?
ANSWER 1: 1344-1464 there were 20 Groats in a Noble.
ANSWER 2: 1464-1470 there were 25 Groats in a Noble.
Oooh! Cunning, I like. The first answer would suffice. However, like you have illustrated inflation/deflation would sometimes raise or lower the value. Let it be noted than in c.1470 the noble was replaced by the lighter angel. The reason being that the gold in the noble out weighed the face value. There's only two solutions to that problem, eitrher debasement (as practiced widely on the continent) or weight/size reduction. The noble had been in this situation once before during Henry IV's reign where a gold and silver shortage had caused prices to soar and coin melting to become quite profitable. The solution then was the same, introduce a lighter coin of the same design. In the 1470s a new design came too. Incidentally the new design would last until the 1620s, although the value altered somewhat by the end. Edited by Ętheling
08/31/2006 11:32 am
|
|
Pillar of the Community
Australia
1360 Posts |
Q.2) I'm not sure about this one, but I think that Alfred the Great, 871-899, had pennies and half-pennies.
|
|
Valued Member
United Kingdom
438 Posts |
quote:
Originally posted by Snooba
Q.2) I'm not sure about this one, but I think that Alfred the Great, 871-899, had pennies and half-pennies.
Spot on! Yes the halfpenny (proper) first appeared during the reign of Alfred the Great and was minted in some quantity by most successive rulers up until the reign of Eadgar (958/9-975) [or there abouts] when the denomination ceased. The denomination later cropped up during the reign of Henry I (1100-1135) and then went into hiding again until Henry III's reign. Of course Edward I's 1279 coinage revolution deserves credit for one thing, halfpennies and farthings in mass quantities that simply [as far as surviving evidence suggests] did not exist before. |
|
Pillar of the Community
Australia
1360 Posts |
5) What is remarkable about the short cross pennies of Richard I and John that is relatively unremarkable about coins issued on the continent at the time? Is it that they contained almost a pennyweight (roughly 24 grains) of silver, whereas the ones in Europe had degraded/reduced the silver considerably?  |
|
Valued Member
United Kingdom
438 Posts |
Nope! |
|
Pillar of the Community
Australia
1360 Posts |
D'oh!  |
|
Moderator
Australia
16832 Posts |
Here are the answers I worked out before... For reference, I'm using a venerable (1980) edition of the Seaby (now Spink) catalogue. 1) In which king's reign did Groats first debut?I knew it was one of the Edwards; had to look it up to confirm it was Edward I, in 1279. 2) A common misconception in English medieval numismatics is that halfpennies and farthings first appeared in Edward I's reign. When in actual fact did they appear?Halfpennies appear to have been briefly trendy in the late-800's. They're listed for Alfred the Great (871-889) and the Danish-occupied territories (885-915), several types such as St Edmund, King Cnut, St Peter and imitation Alfred the Great. I only knew roughly where to look because I have a British halfpenny and half-new-penny in a perspex case with the theme "farewell to the halfpenny c.885-1984". 3) How many Groats are in a Noble?Oh, man, maths?!? Not my strong point.  Lets see. a Noble was 6s 8d, or 80 pence; the groat was 4 pence. So there oughta be 20 groats to a noble. The old folks around here who can still do predecimal currency calculations in their head, 40 years after going decimal, astonish me.  4) When was the short cross penny introduced?During the reign of Henry II. 1180 is the recorded date. 5) What is remarkable about the short cross pennies of Richard I and John that is relatively unremarkable about coins issued on the continent at the time?I assume it's the fact that they don't actually show the name of the ruling monarch, but their venerable (and less controversial) predecessor, Henry II. Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
|
|
Valued Member
United Kingdom
438 Posts |
Yes Sap Question 5 is correct!
The short cross coinage becomes an 'immobile' type, or 'static' or whatever other description I've heard.
The portrait does change (degrades) but the name remains hENRICUS right through Richard, John and Henry III's reigns. This was uncommon in England because generally the coinage changed when a new monarch came along. On the continent though you can encounter types of these immobilised coinages from various region. Blois, Champagne, Anjou.
The shortcross coinage wasn't the only type of English coinage to do this name fixing though, the long cross coinage that superseded it did the same. Edward I long cross pennies are in the name of Henry III.
Anyhow thanks guys and gals, I hope this quiz has been informative!
|
|
Pillar of the Community
Australia
1360 Posts |
|
| |
Replies: 15 / Views: 2,194 |
|
Posted 08/30/2006 10:29 am
