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 Replies: 12 / Views: 827 |
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Valued Member
United States
265 Posts |
It has been a while since my last post... Let's just say, "tough times" and leave it at that... Anyway, I came across this obvious counterfeit coin and knew exactly what I had to do next to find out more. I think it is a VERY crude - though one of a kind - example of an 18th century contemporary counterfeit Irish halfpenny. The King George II (?) portrait is buffoonish. The writing on the reverse, including the date (1737 ?) is not only more buffoonery, it is in mirror image (I think), as if the counterfeiter didn't realize how his struck image would appear before he struck it. The weight is 8.31 grams! That's about all I got - or think I got. Would LOVE to hear the thoughts of this forum's experts, even if it is just to confirm what I am thinking so far.   Edited by jdsstrat
09/04/2026 07:12 am
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Valued Member
 United States
265 Posts |
P.S. I am posting in this sub-forum because I understand that many coins like this made their way to the colonies circa 1737, if they weren't in fact made here.
P.P.S. I am not entirely convinced that the 3 of 1737 is a 3. It may be an 8 of 1787. What do you think?
P.P.P.S. The diameter is a hair over 30 mm.
Edited by jdsstrat
09/04/2026 10:55 am
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
6841 Posts |
Why is the date backwards?
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Valued Member
United States
265 Posts |
I was hoping someone at this forum would be able to answer that somewhat definitively. I can only speculate.
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Valued Member
United States
265 Posts |
After a few more deep dives of my own, I thought it would make sense to update my last post. So here it goes... I am looking for some assistance identifying and potentially finding a catalog variety number (Vlack, Atkins, etc.) for an apparent contemporary counterfeit copper coin I have in my possession. It appears to be an exceptionally crude, blundered-die variety from the post-Revolutionary War era. I say "blundered" because the entire inscription and date on the reverse side is completely retrograde, as in mirror-imaged. It is clearly the work of an amateur. The crudely cartoonish King George III portrait on the obverse is also, I believe, in mirror image, and is of the "two eyeballs" error kind, where two separate eye profiles are stacked next to each other. Additionally and upon further review, the coin appears to be a contemporary cast piece rather than struck. There is a clear, unfiled casting sprue/gate remnant protruding from the rim, along with a corresponding soft molding flash line around the edge. Given the 1787 date, specifications (i.e., 8.31 grams, slightly more than 30mm diameter), and extreme crudity, I wonder if this coin can be linked to the kinds of clandestine operations that were rampant during the 1787 currency crisis. Or, perhaps, to American/Canadian Blacksmith style issues. Has anyone seen this exact "two eyeball" obverse paired with the mirrored 1787 Hibernia reverse before? Any catalog references or insights in general would be GREATLY appreciated!     |
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Moderator
United States
105640 Posts |
wow "Cartoonish" is right of George.
I hope someone can answer your questions.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
6841 Posts |
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Moderator
United States
194816 Posts |
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Valued Member
United States
265 Posts |
Thanks for the merge! Makes ˘.
BTW: I am not entirely sold on this being a product of a cast counterfeiting process, either. I have been reading that crudely made planchets will sometimes exhibit characteristics that make them appear as having been cast.
Thoughts?
Edited by jdsstrat
09/09/2026 2:55 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1758 Posts |
John Lorenzo is currently investigating or should I say ... thanks for the alert! Having some experts currently reviewing this example. An extraordinary piece. HIBERNIA in retrograde. It seems to belong to the Wood 38 Blacksmith group but its crudeness is even beyond the current varieties in this Wood # IMO (see my book Forgotten Coins) - Jeff Rock is taking the lead here since IMO he is the current world authority on counterfeit Irish. Allow several days ... never seen this piece before either obverse or reverse.
Edited by colonialjohn
09/08/2026 11:42 pm
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Moderator
United States
194816 Posts |
Quote:
Thanks for the merge! Makes ˘. My pleasure.  |
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Valued Member
United States
265 Posts |
Thank you, John. I look forward to hearing back from you. BTW, the webmaster at C4 has put me in contact with Jeff, who has recommended a few books to get me started on my own. Apparently, I have a LOT of catching up to do :)
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3488 Posts |
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Replies: 12 / Views: 827 |
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Posted 09/04/2026 11:38 am
