| Author |
Replies: 13 / Views: 319 |
|
|
New Member
United States
6 Posts |
Here is my Islamic coin (Ottoman Empire 100 Kurush gold) I bought several other coins from this seller, and the others were definitely verified authentic, but this one in particular after seven years ,thought was real, but after I ran it through Chatbot, they told me the year was missing and it could be a jewelry piece. bought from ebay naturally did not know it was a fake until now. figured I post some pictures to see what everybody here thinks. And it slipped by me, didn't notice the sultan year was missing#129322;    A fake on ebay?nooooo . that doesn't happen.  . My XRF tells me it is gold with silver and copper.it's 7.212 grams correctly an XRF told me it was 91%gold 8.1% copper .05% silver. AND .03% iron! which I thought was surprising but it's natural for that particular gold from the 1800s. I'm curious of what the experts think here. *** Moved by Staff to a more appropriate forum. ***
|
|
|
|
New Member
 United States
6 Posts |
 Hey sorry forgot the other side Let me know what kind of history Any details Any leaders or cool stories What would you do with a coin?
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
3015 Posts |
I think your Chatbot needs a little fine tuning in this case (the date is Arabic), cause I think it is a real looking coin to me at least  It would be Numista#59645, AH-1255, year 14, corresponding to 1852 AD... So I believe this is a genuine coin from what I see 
|
|
Pillar of the Community
Germany
1075 Posts |
Rule number one of dealing with AI, AI is not a person, it cannot think.
I had an Indian coin I was looking for identification, and I sent AI pictures and it couldn't figure it out at all. Came on here and within a day I had the answer, because humans are better than AI.
|
|
Moderator
 Australia
17031 Posts |
On some Ottoman coins, the regnal year is above the reverse text; on other coins, the regnal year is on the obverse below the toughra. General rule of thumb, for most Ottoman-Turkish coins I believe the date is on the obverse, for most Ottoman-Egypt coins it's on the reverse.
Working out the AD date-equivalent of Ottoman coins requires some maths. For example, for your coin, the date of issue in the Islamic calendar is 1255 + 14 - 1 = AH1268; you then either do the maths or look up a conversion table to get AD 1852. The AH to AD conversion is never 1:1 since the Islamic year is only 354 days long, so their new year drifts backwards by a couple of weeks each year; AH1268 began on October 27th 1851 and ended on October 15th 1852, so "most of" AH1268 landed in AD1862.
In terms of determining the authenticity of your coin, a simple test is to weigh it. If the weight is correct, and the coin isn't suspiciously thick, then the coin is almost certainly made of actual gold, of more or less the correct fineness - so you're not going to be out on any money, even if it's not genuine. There is a strong tradition in the middle east of making fake gold coins out of genuine gold, simply to put the gold into a form that's familiar and acceptable to gold buyers.
There is therefore a strong distinction that needs to be made (which is not always obvious and which may be too subtle for AI to pick up) between a "jeweller's copy" and a "jewellery copy". A "jewellery copy" is intended to look like a gold coin for use as jewellery and is usually not actually made of gold, but rather made of thin lightweight brass, often with designs that only superficially resemble actual coins. On the other hand, a "jeweller's copy" is made of solid gold, perhaps slightly less fine than a genuine coin but nevertheless still "solid gold". Jeweller's copies may or may not have identifying marks on them denoting them as copies; for example, jeweller's copies sold in Dubai are required by law to have a mark of fineness stamped on them.
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
|
|
Moderator
 United States
109906 Posts |
|
|
Moderator
 Australia
17031 Posts |
No, the accession date is 1255; this is the year that this particular sultan became Sultan, not the year the coin was actually struck. All coins struck in the name of this sultan have the accession year "1255" on them. The regnal year in which the coin was actually issued is on the other side below the toughra, "14". To get the actual date of issue, you have to add the regnal year to the accession year. Because 1255 was Year 1, not Year 0, you also have to subtract 1. Thus, the actual date of issue is 1255 + 14 - 1 = 1268. You can then convert that AH year to an AD year (or year-pair).
You'll have to ask the Ottomans why they decided to use such a convoluted dating system for their coins, but it's what they almost uniformly used on all their coins throughout their empire, so they were used to it I suppose.
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
|
|
Moderator
 United States
109906 Posts |
Ah, yes, thanks I forgot about that.
|
|
Moderator
 United States
109906 Posts |
Here is the obverse with the "14" circled, in case some folks cannot find it. and when doing the math, it is -1 because there is no 'year 0' (tha'st right, ain't it?) 
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
1918 Posts |
The coin aside, I saw that you consulted a chat source that I've seen returning stupid results.
|
|
New Member
 United States
6 Posts |
Huge hi five to everyone who helped me decode my 100 Kurush gold coin! I'll admit, my initial anxiety had me convinced I bought fake mall jewelry! Instead, you all gave this Dad a great lesson in Islamic math. Ha..and here our kids thought algebra was difficult I am grateful this community helped me figure this out. With this group's help.&  it was issued under Sultan Mehmed V Re#351;âd. The math works out to the base year of 1327 AH + 14 regnal years - 1 = 1340 AH, which is exactly 1922—the final months of the 600-year-old Ottoman Empire! Cooool a last year coin? Nice! There is something special about letting the kids hold actual history in their hands especially during bedtime.while we talk about the "Sultans of Trade" and the old silk salt & spice routes. Thanks for saving my sanity and making me look like a cool history expert to my kids! We're very grateful for allowing me to post coins.
|
|
Moderator
 United States
197941 Posts |
Quote: I had an Indian coin I was looking for identification, and I sent AI pictures and it couldn't figure it out at all. Came on here and within a day I had the answer, because humans are better than AI. 
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
1287 Posts |
the accession date is 1255, not 1327
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
587 Posts |
AI results are based on probabilities. The more relevant data it is trained on, the more accurate its responses. And vice versa. This is why it's a little better at US coins and not so good at everything else.
|
| |
Replies: 13 / Views: 319 |
|