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 Replies: 250 / Views: 48,760 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7840 Posts |
I would send it to ANACS for AUTHENTICATION, if it comes back authentic...then it passes the litmus test of whether or not you want to throw down additional funds on this. Unless you are a member of PCGS or NGC, ANANCS is the fast track track (and least expensive) authentication company. My Two Cents.  BTW, there are a few auction houses (don't remember which ones) that will slab the coin if you consign it with them at no additional cost. FWIW.  Edited by oih82w8
05/22/2012 12:09 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4989 Posts |
I would venture to say if you get the coin conserved and certified and then include a signed letter plus some photos of where you found it, the metal detector used, etc... that might actually increase its value since this would arguably be one of the greatest detector finds in recent memory.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
6385 Posts |
Unfortunately, there is no single correct answer. I would at least call NCS and try to have a conversation with one of their grading/quality/customer service people. Tell them what you have and ask if they can give you a ballpark quote on conservation services. Your $539 estimate may or may not be accurate but might be a wise investment in terms of making the coin more attractive and able to fetch a higher price.
The reason I'm recommending NCS is that they can probably improve the appearance of the coin. It might not be a big issue for silver coins but their conservation process will also stabilize the surfaces which will prevent any further corrosive deterioration.
The ANACS submission idea is fine for proving authenticity at minimum cost (I wouldn't take Comensky's judgment on authenticity as the final word). If you elect to go with ANACS give them a call first to confirm that they will authenticate and/or slab a dug coin. I'd go with an estimated value of $10,000 and send it Registered and insured. That would be your best path forward if you are not convinced about the cost/benefit equation for NCS.
Please keep us posted about your decisions. I envy your good fortune but that doesn't stop me from enjoying it!
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Pillar of the Community
United States
516 Posts |
So, in my opinion, it breaks down like this:
1) If the coin is authentic, which it appears is definintely possible, you have the option to send it into ANACS. For this coin, the only real purpose of sending it into ANACS is to prove authenticity at a minimal cost. ANACS has lower fees than PCGS or NGC who also will authenticate it whent hey slab the coin. If ANACS comes back saying it's a fake, you only lose the small grading fee from ANACS. If they come back as authentic, you will turn around and send the coin to PCGS or NGC. The reason you wouldnt send it to ANACS is if you believe it's 100% authentic and also if you want to flip the coin faster. You'll be waiting for two grading companies to turn around the coin if you choose to go with ANACS first.
2) NGC vs NCS. I think this coin is probably well served to be in a NCS slab, as recommended by others. NCS is just the conservation branch of NGC. They take problem coins, clean them in the best possible way for that coin, and then stick it in a NCS details slab. This tells people that the coin has been conserved (no more corrision, etc), tells them that it's authentic, and tells them that NCS/NGC would assign it a details grade of XF or AU. I agree that it'd be worth a call to NCS. I'd also ask them if you submit it to them and it turns out to be fake, do you only have to pay the flat rate and not x%?
3) PCGS. PCGS would likely return the coin in a genuine holder if it's authentic. No conservation and no details grade. This isn't really a problem though because people who would buy this coin will know how to come up with their own details grade :)
4) For resale, I dont think many people can tell you outright if NCS or PCGS is the better option. I would probably talk directly to an auction house, Heritage, Stacks, etc to see what they think. They will want to get you the best price since their cut depends on the final sales price. They will also take care of the legwork for you. Sometimes they will even come to you if the coin is valuable enough.
5) Without a doubt, sell it slabbed. People who want to touch and feel the coin will crack it out of the slab. You will have MANY MANY MANY more people interested in it slabbed. For those that have the money to buy this coin, and wnat to touch and feel it, they will have no problems cracking the slab. It only takes 1-2 minutes and it's not hard to do. The only exception to this is if you are consigning it to a high end auction house that sells raw coins. People trust the auction house for authenticity like they trust the slabbing company. It would be okay to submit the coin unslabbed in this scenario. Make sense?
Congrats again on the coin. It's quite a rarity and should pay off nicely for you. Oh, and dont go back to that dealer :)
Keep us updated on what you decide in regards to submitting and selling. I know we'd love to track the sale whenever you have it listed.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2335 Posts |
I would recommend you call Heritage and speak with one of their specialists to discuss consignment possibilities. I would be sure to tell them you had a PCGS authorized dealer verify authenticity. I'd also offer to send detailed pics of the condition. I'm reasonably certain they would be happy to help you get it slabbed & sold.....mainly because they will make a decent commission. Although there are differing opinions here about which TPG to use I don't see anyone telling you to sell it raw. A real time discussion with a specialist at a reputable auction house is going to help outline your options. |
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Moderator
 United States
16679 Posts |
Quote:
The dealers name was Comensky. I chose to go to him because he is an authorized dealer for PCGS. Between you and I, I didn't care for him at all. Right from the get go, I was angry at him for man-handling my coin and not holding it by the rim. He completely down-played the rarity of my coin, and basically gave me the feeling that coins dug from the ground were of no interest to "serious" collecters. In a nutshell, he basically insinuated it was noything more than a good find on my part. In the end though, he did offer to purchase it if I wanted to sell it. I have to admit to being a little confused by by the differing opinions on what to do with this coin. For example: Some say it has to be slabbed because that's the only way collectors will consider purchasing it. While others say never slab it because collecters of coin this rare actually want to touch it. The dealer I spoke to suggested the latter of the two. Yeah, you could have brought him a genuine 1913 Liberty nickel and he would have told you it's nothing. Leave this guy in the dust...besides, he seems like an amateur. I've dealt with plenty of dealers like this, they know you have something rare, and their jealous. swcoin.ecrater.com
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New Member
 United States
44 Posts |
Okay fellas, I sent the same pics that you've seen of the coin off to Heritage. Well they called me on the phone shortly afterwards. The guy says that from what he can see he believes it's genuine and they would gladly take it on for auction. He estimated it would grade XF45 with environmental damage from the pics. Based on that he guessed it would go for $6000-$7000 and possibly as high as $10,000. I forgot to ask the fella what their take of that would be....do you guys know what percentage of that they get?
So it seems this would be the easiest route for me to sell it for a good price IF I was absolutelt sure I want to sell it. Let me ask you this: Suppose it is worth $10,000.....what might it be worth in 5 to 10 years?
I have a daughter that will be ready for college in 3 years.
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New Member
United States
44 Posts |
He also stated that Heritage would do for the coin everything they could to realize the best price for it including sending it to NCS if they felt that the coin could be improved by that service.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
10982 Posts |
Quote:
I forgot to ask the fella what their take of that would be....do you guys know what percentage of that they get?
It varies. Usually 10% from the consignor (you) plus 15% from the buyer (buyer's premium) leaving you with 75% of what the buyer pays minus minor shipping/listing fees. These fees are negotiable and you should get them to waive the 10% consignment fee (or greatly reduce it) without too much problem. Heritage will also have it conserved/slabbed and they are a good bet to realize the top retail price. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
759 Posts |
He would get 90% of the winning bid, correct? Buyer's premium is just that, 15% (17.5% after July 31) added to the winning bid and paid by buyer. So after that he gets what, 78.3% of what the buyer pays if auction closes before Aug 1, but who goes off that number? I'm assuming the consignor's fee is correctly stated above at 10%, so he receives 90% of the winning bid. Then you have Uncle Sam coming into play as well at your personal rate if coin is held less than one year.
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New Member
United States
44 Posts |
@OneBowl: What's this "if coin is held less than one year" clause your talking about?
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New Member
United States
30 Posts |
OneBowl is talking about the tax code. You will be taxed on your gain (in your case, the entire value of the coin) at your regular marginal income tax rate, if you've owned the coin for less than a year.
If you own the coin for more than a year, it's only taxed at 28% (long-term gain on collectibles). So if your highest tax bracket is more than 28%, you may want to hold the coin a year before selling, so you save on taxes.
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New Member
United States
44 Posts |
Ummmm, I'm just wondering something. Since I haven't mentioned to anyone WHEN I found this coin how would anyone know how long I've had it? Not that it will matter, the tax rate difference wont be much for me.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4989 Posts |
At what level does a coin sale trigger a report to the IRS... 10k?
The OP obviously needs to fulfill all his legal tax obligations but I'm just curious from an informational standpoint.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
759 Posts |
coin1024 is dead on with his tax code explanation.
SmokinJoe...as far as reporting when you acquired the coin, that's basically on the honor system in this case. The 28% bracket kicks in at about $86K of taxable income with the rate below it being 25%, so if you profit by $10K, we're talking a $300 federal tax difference most likely.
Of course, we're kind of ahead of everything talking about taxes, although it is good to have it on your radar screen. For now, delight in an amazing find and enjoy the journey to the auction. You have a detecting story of a lifetime. Please continue to keep us posted. Good luck!
edit for fenton...technically, at $1 profit, it should be reported. If Heritage issues a 1099 form, IRS systems would likely catch not reporting it, so that revenue should be included, but all associated expenses would be deducted to arrive at the additional income to be taxed.
Edited by OneBowl
05/22/2012 9:02 pm
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Replies: 250 / Views: 48,760 |
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Posted 05/22/2012 12:07 pm
