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Change Our Currency's Denominations? - My Latest Coins Rant.

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jbuck's Avatar
United States
188342 Posts
 Posted 01/24/2013  11:47 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The quarter cannot go anywhere until at least 2021. I want to finish my ATB set.

I have said before that the discontinued circulating cents and nickels would continue on as NIFC; I suspect the same for a discontinued circulating quarter.

However, since the quarter is the real workhorse, we should just kill the cent, nickel, and dime. Round everything to the nearest quarter dollar. You know I am right.



Quote:
... and if we got to a $5 coin it could be the size of an Ike.
You forgot to properly describe it... this would be an Eisenhower Five Dollar coin.
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SteveCaruso's Avatar
United States
1796 Posts
 Posted 01/24/2013  1:02 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SteveCaruso to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Geez, now I have a lot to catch up on here. :-) Just to jump in and drop another thing to chew on:

If we were to arrange everything based upon usability, *roughly*:

The dime should be about the size of a penny.
The half dollar should be about the size of a nickel.
$1 coins should be no larger than the size of a dime.
$2 coins (or, heck, even bring back circulating quarter eagles) should be about the size of quarters.
$5 coins should be about the size of half dollars, or resized to be a golden colored coin smaller than the current dollar coin.
$10 coins should be about the size of Ikes, or modern dollar coins. :-)


If you want to be romantic, keep the $10 bill and the $10 coin at the same time, and you're about where we are today with coin sizes. :-)

Boom.
Edited by SteveCaruso
01/24/2013 1:03 pm
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Ben's Avatar
United Kingdom
4208 Posts
 Posted 01/24/2013  2:29 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Ben to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I say withdraw all cents from circulation - use those as planchets (giving som einteresting mint errors, I'm sure, with copper and zinc in each year) to strike a new dime.

Withdraw all nickels to restrike as Quarters - no more big ol' quarters.

Replace half dollar planchets with quarter planchets for striking with.

Use dollar coins and restrike the old ones as $5 coin. Bring in a $2 coin (bimetallic, of course).

And strike circulating gold $500 coins for larger transactions.
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basebal21's Avatar
13014 Posts
 Posted 01/24/2013  2:35 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add basebal21 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
The quarter cannot go anywhere until at least 2021. I want to finish my ATB set.


I agree I really like that set so the nickels are off limits for a decade at least.


Quote:
And strike circulating gold $500 coins for larger transactions.


No country will every strike circulating PM coins again. The second that the melt approaches the value those get snagged from circulation.
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ninamason's Avatar
United States
1227 Posts
 Posted 01/24/2013  3:09 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ninamason to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Okay, so, this is another brief interjection.

I don't see change going anywhere for a LONG time. Altered, maybe (as in the example of getting rid of the cent), but not disappearing. Here are five places I could have used cash and coins and only cash and coins in the last week if I hadn't been working, or actually did use change:

--A Mexican lady's "tamale stand" down near Apollo's, which is actually a cooler filled with those foil hot/cold bags, and a sun umbrella
--A yard sale
--The tip jar at Five Guys (actually, I did do this)
--not applicable to me but very applicable to parents: your kid's allowance
--The Ronald McDonald House box at McDonald's

And a bonus:

--A kid at my work who wanted a doughnut and came up Two Cents short because at six years old he didn't really grok sales tax yet. I fished a couple of pennies out of my pocket and tossed 'em in my coworker's drawer.



"But," I'm sure those of you with iPhones are thinking, "What about Square?" Sure, Square is a great invention, and grandmas with trendy granddaughters willing to give up an afternoon to babysit Grandma's yard sale may make cash obsolete at some yard sales. But do you think the Mexican lady who sells tamales has an iPhone? (let me answer that question for you: I've seen her cell phone. I'm pretty sure it's from the late 1990s.) What about the tip jar at Five Guys? Having worked at a place with a tip jar I can tell you that at the end of each day they get divvied up between all workers, so the cook gets tips as well as the cashier. Trying to use Square or similar software for the tip jar would be a nightmare. What about your kid's allowance? Sure, a teen may have a Green Dot card or something similar, but what about your six-year-old--or, for those of you with adult kids, what about the boy who mows your lawn?


Hundreds of things would die with the death of our coinage. Lemonade stands. Small businesses or initiatives that can't afford a digital hookup*. Tip jars. Local charity jars ("Sarah has been diagnosed with a rare form of cancer, please help her family with your spare change"). The charity "Dollar Dance" at weddings. Flea markets and yard sales--the older folks who always have the most fascinating junk are those least likely to have things like Square hookups, and this would round-robin until people saw no point in going to them anymore. And what about that most common act of courtesy--the man who taps a distraught woman on the shoulder when she discovers she's two dollars short to pay for her kids' treat and it's the end of her paycheque, and says "Ma'am? You dropped this" and hands her $5 so her kids can have their treat and she can have her dignity?

I don't think American society would readily accept all of these changes--not this generation, probably not for another 2-3 lifetimes--long after all those who can remember a world where cash was normal are dead. And even then--can we be sure? I would say we can't count on the death of cash and coins until the day that Little Jimmy can afford his own Square hookup to run his lemonade stand. Too much stands to disappear otherwise.




*e.g., the kid you see on every college campus who offers to edit your term paper for a buck per page. This kid might have an iPhone with Square, but it's equally likely he/she doesn't. I was this kid, and I didn't--I couldn't even think about affording one. This also encompasses teens doing odd jobs for money and offering your neighbor thirty bucks if you can borrow his pickup to move your sofa to your new place.
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jbuck's Avatar
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188342 Posts
 Posted 01/24/2013  5:34 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
--The Ronald McDonald House box at McDonald's
Funny you mention this. The last (and probably only) time I used a credit card at McDonald's I was asked if I would like to add a donation to the Ronald McDonald House.
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JSH's Avatar
United States
410 Posts
 Posted 01/24/2013  6:27 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add JSH to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@ninamason: Africa solved the problem of mobile payments 5 years ago. It is called M-Pesa and allows people to make peer to peer payments using any cell phone capable of sending and receiving text messages. You simply enter the person's phone number, the amount you wish to transfer, and push send.
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SteveCaruso's Avatar
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1796 Posts
 Posted 01/25/2013  9:17 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SteveCaruso to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
"But," I'm sure those of you with iPhones are thinking, "What about Square?"


Don't get me started on Square and PayPal... If I've said it once, I'll say it again until I'm blue in the face:

I do not want to have to spend money to accept money.

The only reason why my business accepts PayPal, for example, is because it's ubiquitous. I'd honestly love to have that extra $1-2k in fees a year back in my wallet.

Credit cards cause more problems than they solve.


Quote:
Africa solved the problem of mobile payments 5 years ago. It is called M-Pesa


M-Pesa has fees, too.
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ninamason's Avatar
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1227 Posts
 Posted 01/26/2013  01:42 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ninamason to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Steve, you add another brilliant illustration to my point. There are plenty of people who feel this way and not all of them are from before Generation Tech.

I just don't see money going anywhere for a long time.
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JSH's Avatar
United States
410 Posts
 Posted 01/26/2013  2:58 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add JSH to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
My mention of M-Pesa was simply to point out that mobile to mobile payments are possible without a smartphone. The technology is available to handle the transactions that ninamason said could only be handled with cash. The question of whether or not that technology will be embraced by the general public is a completely different topic. In my opinion the challenge mobile payments face is not a technological or a rejection of fees. The problem is that there are too many competing systems that are not compatible. This is a problem that can be fixed pretty easily though. We do not control money, the government does. If they wanted to the feds could simply stop making new money and replace it with a nationwide mobile payment system. I personally believe it is only a matter of time and I will see this change happen in my lifetime.
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SteveCaruso's Avatar
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 Posted 01/26/2013  3:25 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SteveCaruso to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Given how much resistance there is against eliminating the $1 bill, I wouldn't hold your breath. ;-)
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JSH's Avatar
United States
410 Posts
 Posted 01/26/2013  4:47 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add JSH to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'm sure people also said that we would never switch from coins to paper dollars or go off the gold standard either. It depends on the time frame. I expect to be drawing breath for at least another 50 years. :)
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basebal21's Avatar
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 Posted 01/26/2013  6:51 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add basebal21 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I'm sure people also said that we would never switch from coins to paper dollars or go off the gold standard either. It depends on the time frame




Theres probably little to no chance of money being phased out for several generations. Every generation seems to use cash less and less. There probably is a good chance at some point money will all be electronic but it wont be happening for 100s if not 1000s of years.
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Earle42's Avatar
United States
10038 Posts
 Posted 01/26/2013  8:15 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Earle42 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Good points here. Also, if everything was electronic, it sure would be easy for big brother to stick his nose in where it does not belong and squeeze taxes out of everything that is ever bought. So much for garage sales and flea markets being fun and inexpensive!

And if someone thinks the government would never do this - I have a bridge in NY...
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JSH's Avatar
United States
410 Posts
 Posted 01/27/2013  09:58 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add JSH to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Cash is already being phased out and has been for decades. With every new form of payment fewer people use cash and cash transactions are already down to about 50% of transactions. They are an even smaller percentage of the total value of transactions since people tend to use cash for small purchases and cards for larger purchases. The use of cash also correlated to the age of the person. Some of the recent grads at my work don't use cash at all. If a merchant doesn't accept cards they simply don't shop there since they don't carry any cash.

Of course this is only talking about individuals, businesses abandoned cash quite a while ago. I've haven't received a physical paycheck from a company in more than a decade and last year my company stopped even printing statements. I routinely receive requests from utility companies to switch to paperless statements and online payments. Some hotels and car rental companies no longer accept cash or checks and require cards for all payments. These companies have determined that the cost associated with handling cash are not worth the benefits. (Several papers I've read put the cost of printing, transporting, and handling cash at 2-3% of GDP.)

I see the decline of cash continuing until we get to a tipping point. As fewer consumers use cash fewer businesses will accept cash until you reach the point that cash exits the above board economy and cash it really only used for "off the books" transactions. At that point the government may decide to simply stop making cash to force those transactions out of the shadows and into the light.
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