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 Replies: 28 / Views: 4,751 |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2805 Posts |
Okay, so here is my latest dream coin...   It is a silver Panamanian balboa, uncirculated, minted to the same specifications as the U.S. dollar (which the balboa is just a dressed-up version of). It was also minted and designed in the United States. Now here's the kicker... the 1931 balboa (mintage 200,000) is valued by Krause at $150 in BU ($100 in UNC). Compare this to the 1928 Peace dollar (mintage 360,049), which is valued at $875 in MS-63, and $485 in MS-60! Obviously there is a discrepancy here, and it's not because the Peace dollar looks 5 times nicer. They are two silver dollars, from the same era, the same artistic school, and the same type of currency. Panama also had a lower standard of living, so the Panamanian coin would be more likely to circulate, be spent, and wear down than the American equivalent. So why the difference?  I am pretty sure it is awareness, and the Peace dollar's place as the most difficult part of a widely-collected series. There are many more American collectors, and American coin prices become much higher as a result! Meanwhile, not as many have the time to try and complete sets of all nations, so world coins are often completely ignored, even ones like this one that are so similar to their American compatriots, and just as nice. It's a shame, but the real question is... are American coins overvalued, or are world coins undervalued?  |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3168 Posts |
Here's my little take on it.. I believe there are a few ways to look at this.. First from my Father.. It's only worth what someone will pay for it. So if one goes for $800 and the other for $150 then the both are valued at those prices... Second (and just joking of course... They're only worth a dollar ;) Lastly I think it boils down to what is more desirable to the public at large. For whatever reason the 1928 Peace dollar is more highly regarded and desired than the other and therefore commands a larger price and perceived value. On a side note but most importantly. You should buy what you like and try to get the best price for what you want personally. I think both coins are remarkable in their own right. |
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
1949 Posts |
Very interesting question- I primarily collect Canadian and world coins, so when I buy I like that I get acquire coins in grades and with mintages I would never be able to touch if they were American, but when I'm selling I wish the prices were higher! IMO, I think it's a little of both- There are certainly numerous American coins which are overpriced, and I think many world coins are underpriced...
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Valued Member
United States
218 Posts |
Some very interesting points and a great post that got me thinking... You know, I cannot speak for everyone, but using me as a test sample of one (lol), I know, I know a lot more about American Coins then world coins. If you had not told me so much about that coin in the picture then I would have had no idea what it was or even what country. I think we are a product of the country we are raised in. I am sure if I was a middle class Panamanian coin collector I would know more about Panamanian coins then USA Coins? Maybe? I don't know. So, yes I think there is a pretty strong selection biased built in.
Also, I believe that the laws of economics apply here. If you had to guess what country (per capita) had the most coin collectors I believe USA would be at the very top (if not the top). So therefore, you probably have a lot more American's collecting coins then elsewhere, thus that would naturally create a demand for USA coins if my thesis holds true that Americans (as a whole) are not very education about world coins.
I would be interested to hear what others have to say.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1391 Posts |
Supply and demand, simple as that. More people want to collect American coins so American coins have a higher premium. I once got this Panama commemorative coin out of the junk box for a dollar: http://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces46615.html Look at the mintage there, only 4,000. I asked about it. They flat out told me that no one wants them and they can't afford to keep inventory around that no one wants. Edited by allranger
12/09/2013 7:48 pm
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Valued Member
United States
211 Posts |
There's definitely more value in a lot of non-USA countries. It's simply because fewer people collect Panamanian coins that it's cheaper. Even when there are few coins in a mintage, there are even fewer people looking for it. I think American coins actually cost more because there is actually more demand for them. From that perspective, it's not like there is a pricing bubble. In my opinion, a lot of American series like the Morgan dollar have to be getting close to what I would consider their ceiling price. There are so many Morgans that their price would never get above what the average American coin collector would consider affordable. That's not counting top coins because there will always be people willing to pay truckloads of money for the best of something. I've sold some Panamanian coins on ebay, and they just don't t that many views or traffic across the board. If you are looking to buy one of those Balboa coins, they appear to go for a good bit less than their catalog value. I bought a 1947 in BU from a dealer for 40 dollars, when the Krause value is 75. I've since seen a them go for less on ebay if you are willing to bargain hunt. I didn't even know the coin existed until I bought mine. I thought the design looked so good and the coin looked so attractive that I couldn't pass it up. It's relatively cheap for a crown size silver coin like that. Edited by JimmyJames
12/09/2013 8:05 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1888 Posts |
Since America is packed to the gills with collectors of every sort of treasure or trinket, and since this country's standard of living allows for plenty of discretionary funding for hobbies to absorb, whereas Panama's may not, it stands to reason that prices would be higher here for the 'local' stuff. The fact that those Balboas have low mintages just acts as a discouraging market factor. Coin collectors *always* have a bottom line mentality. They may like a coin's design even though it's from the dark shores of an unexplored island with mintage lower than a monkey's I.Q., but if it has no resale value, it's going to get ignored or perpetually low-balled. I'm with ya on the Panamanian stuff. I started date sets of those silver series soon after I discovered choice specimens lurking in the junk silver tubs. I'm just about done with the decimos and the medios; still need a few quartos and balboas but I'm confident they will turn up anytime now at prices that are hard to refuse. This stuff with 200-300 thou mintage is being sold at 3 to 6% above spot. Gimme more...  |
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Pillar of the Community
 Canada
2805 Posts |
Well, I am angling for a UNC/BU 1947 issue for $50... it's at a local shop, so it's gone on my Christmas list :O
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
5417 Posts |
One simple answer: Yes, American coinage is overpriced but it is also the most desirable which leads to the inevitable determiner; supply and demand. Supply for the Balboa in UNC lets say in 500 and for the Peace dollar is say 10,000 but, but, but , but there are 50x the collectors looking for the 1928 Peace dollar over the Balboa. This again is likely the result of better showmanship and promotion. I personally love the panama designs and have every silver denomination in at-least XF except the 1 balboa. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4233 Posts |
nalaberong, you could ask the same question about why a Canada 1948 dollar, mintage 18780, in MS63 trends at $3000, whereas the 1947 Maple Leaf, mintage 21135, in MS63 trends at $900. Same country, same mint, same mint year, same coin! I raised the topic in the Canada forum about a month ago. Is the 1948 overvalued or the 1947ML undervalued? Not exactly the same as your question, but similar factors at work I think.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2805 Posts |
I think people want the satisfaction of a full set, and the first thing they do is cross off the non-essential varieties. They think... "hey... this Maple Leaf thing is really a variety, isn't it? Right? That's $200 I won't have to spend!"... however, the 1948 is an undeniable fact of life that cannot be dismissed as a "variety", so demand is higher.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4233 Posts |
Yes, true, and I didn't mean to hijack the topic. You mentioned "awareness", and perhaps that equates to "hype" for certain coins. As far as American coins being overvalued, I perceive that over the past 5 years people who have money in the US haven't had a lot of "secure" choices for investing - real estate, stock, bonds, bank CDs were all pretty high risk and/or low return - so perhaps a lot of money went towards coins.
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Bedrock of the Community
13014 Posts |
Survival is more important than mintage for coins of that age. Mintage does play a role is how likely it is there will be a lot of nice examples left but for me just looking at mintages can lead you into some traps.
But I completely agree its all supply and demand. Theres things with miniscule mintages with little premium from lack of demand while other things like Lincolns can have huge premiums from a strong collecting base. With a 300+ million population in the US is doesn't take a large percentage of the total population to stress a lot of the older mintages in higher grades.
Ill actually take the contradictory stance and say if anything right now American coins are undervalued from a down economy and people having less to spend on nonessentials. Its certainly entirely possible that these values could be the new norm, but overall a lot of people who probably once spent a good amount on coins have had to cut back suppressing prices. The top grades obviously arent really affected since there will always be rich people with more money than they know what to do with.
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Valued Member
United States
218 Posts |
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Moderator
 Australia
16831 Posts |
If you can persuade them to include Panamanian coins in the back-of-the-book section of the Red Book, I think you'd find interest in the series would increase, with corresponding increase in price. Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
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Bedrock of the Community
Australia
21788 Posts |
I think higher end MS U.S. coins are WAYYYY over PRICED.
That is the result of a very large and stable market demand for them. The stability is even enough to base investment decisions on. The market is prepared to pay a great deal for a coin that approaches perfection. I have to accept that. That's just the way that it is.
Coins were never made to be perfect. Originally, they were made to circulate. Something has been missed in the translation.
MY opinion is that their real value is a lot less than their market price. Same applies for the coinage of Australia and Great Britain as well.
I am more than perfectly happy with a low MS coin.
I have an about as near to perfect a 1/2 Balboa of 1953, as you can get. I bought it for $5, a couple of years ago.
It doesn't terribly excite me; it just takes it's place in my collection.
Edited by sel_69l
12/10/2013 08:02 am
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Replies: 28 / Views: 4,751 |
Posted 12/09/2013 7:37 pm
