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 Replies: 85 / Views: 11,333 |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2124 Posts |
Quote:
should leave some REAL wiggle room Yeah, the interesting thing is that the concept of "real" could be quite different between a seller and a buyer. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1130 Posts |
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Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
2133 Posts |
Judging by the differences in grade that people give on coins when they ask for a grading in this forum, there could easily be a difference of opinion in value. One person may look at a coin on ebay offered at $5765 and think it's worth that, another may look and think it's worth $4000 or $2000. I'd be interested to know what BuffalosRock thought the coin was actually worth, which is (usually) distinct from what he's prepared to pay. Surely, it's only by considering that, that we can decide whether $4000 is a reasonable offer. |
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
500 Posts |
Quote:
Yeah, the interesting thing is that the concept of "real" could be quite different between a seller and a buyer. Nope, I totally disagree. Expecting 99% or 98% of your asking price, no matter what the pricepoint/range, is rather idiotic! That is my point - it wastes time as it is a not a reasonable expectation or negotiating stance to take. I do think there is such a thing as negotiating in good faith and that just obliterates that notion. Sure there can be a lot of opinion on what an ideal "padding %" is, but that low is ridiculous - as ridiculous as offering 10% of retail ( which IMO everyone would agree is an insulting offer that wastes time as well - will never be accepted and never lead to a reasonable offer ). IMO, 2% or less is wasting others time - just make it BIN then! And those who think a second offer would make the seller "change course" and start suddenly negotiating more reasonably - I've got some swampland for u! If 70% and above wholesale is insulting and lowball, then what % do you think is the lowest that "doesn't insult"? Some are either very poor at haggling or have no clue. That is fine but then don't offer a BO option at all.  |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1130 Posts |
Do you have a link to the coin? I don't know what you are willing to pay, but if you were willing to pay $5000, offer that and see what happens.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
3049 Posts |
You made an offer.. it was 1800 lower than listed.... he counter was only going to move a bit lower... (those are facts)
You refuse to up your offer... you are upset he didn't move as much on his counter.. (that's a fact)
His coin... I would say this has more to do with your ego and your perspective on negotiating .. than your desires to have this coin in your collection...
From reading your posts ... you have an issue with almost anyone that doesn't negotiate the way you do or agree to your negotiating standards... Fair enough that's your perogative.... hope you enjoy looking at the coin on the net...
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Valued Member
United States
352 Posts |
its called "dickering" or "haggling" and it is a art-form in itself you ask a price...it is expected to be high I counter with a low price you come back with a lower price I come back to you with a little higher offer this is where the skill comes into play do you want to sell? I offer...turn to leave..balls in your court except? or ignore? bingo!! we have a sale http://www.wikihow.com/Haggle http://www.thefreedictionary.com/dickering |
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Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
2133 Posts |
I think AgCoinAu is right.
I've haggled for lots of things in Europe, North Africa, USA, Guyana and it's smilar everywhere.
It's not about percentages - there are no hard and fast rules except don't get angry.
You know how much it's worth to you, the seller knows how much it is worth to him or her - if by haggling, you get to a common understanding then money changes hands;
if you can't, then walk away.
No moans, no swearing, no ifs, buts or regrets, just accept - tough.
If you can't walk away, then perhaps you should realise you've undervalued it.
By the way, BuffalosRock still hasn't told us what he thinks it's worth.
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
1949 Posts |
At the end of the day, unless an item is truly unique or rare, in that it can years for a comparable item to come to market, then the item is available. It may not be available for the price you think is fair, but that's why we have a free market. It is not the seller "wasting" peoples time because he/she chooses to negotiate in a manner that "acceptable" to a particular buyer. I would defend the seller on principal if he came down $1 from his original buy it now- You asked him to come down $1800 from his original price, I know for a lot of people, myself included, $1800 is not a small amount of money. Percentages are irrelevant when they are only used for side of the argument but dollar amounts are used instead of percentages when it is more beneficial to the other side of the argument. In response the issue of the price offered being a fair percentage of the wholesale price, ebay, in general, especially with buy it nows is a RETAIL environment. Auctions you may have a mix of wholesale and retail, but buy it nows involve overhead for the seller, especially a seller with a store. While lower than a brick and mortar store, an ebay store still has overhead and buy it nows tend to be priced at a retail price point (for the most part). Again, I want to reiterate I love this debate and even though I vehemently disagree with the OP, I can understand some aspects of his arguments (even though I completely disagree)... I wish the seller of this mystery coin was a member here, I would absolutely love that perspective! |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
500 Posts |
I don't haggle with delusional sellers. So it is moot what I would-have countered or think the coin is worth. The %'s matter and 99% is ridiculous. As a seller I'd never do that and waste someone's time. As I said that is unprofessional at best. "you ask a price...it is expected to be high I counter with a low price you come back with a lower price I come back to you with a little higher offer this is where the skill comes into play" Exactly, and the first counter being 99% says you either didn't start HIGH ENOUGH or are not really wanting to do this process to begin with - so no skill will ever be in play as you didn't enter into the process "in good faith" as I've mentioned. That is the whole point. And %'s do matter! IMO 99% is ridiculous. Some claim my 70% offer was so insulting it deserved a ridiculous counter. I don't think that was too low at all. Here are some of my recent buys. According to some of you I insult "a fair amount" and "I guess" you'd think I should have paid more! The coin details are not important to the discussion, what is important is the market and %'s as it goes to my stance. The first two haggles were with very high profile dealers. The auctions just show that coins are available at reasonable prices - even MS67 as they all were but one. All are PCGS or NGC and IMO high end for their grade. RETAIL ASK WHOLESALE SOLD WHERE 1880 1775 1300 1150 ebay950 795 675 575 Col' Corner 800 auct 625 499.38+s&h HERITAGE 950 auct 650 528.75+s&h HERITAGE 475 auct 390 317.25+s&h HERITAGE 1650 auct 1100 1175+s&h HERITAGE Edited by BuffalosRock
06/08/2014 11:39 am
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2335 Posts |
It doesn't make any difference if the initial offer was reasonable to you....or me...or anyone else participating in this thread. The only person it makes a difference to is the seller. Based on the sequence of events it's obvious one of 2 things has happened. Either the initial offer is unreasonably low in the eyes of the seller or the seller doesn't intend to take much less than the asking price. Unless/until a 2nd offer is made there is absolutely no way of knowing which is the case.  |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1949 Posts |
70% of retail on a $10 coin or even a $100 coin is one thing, while 70% of retail on a $5,000 or $10,000 item is an entirely different thing. It seems like percentages are being used when it is helpful to a point being made then ignored when it is not. Clearly, you have gotten some excellent deals on coins. I will again reiterate it not an individual sellers obligation to provide you with those excellent deals. If the seller truly feels he can make at least an extra $1000 more than what you are offering, why on earth should he be criticized for that? Out of the 6 examples you provided of wonderful deals you got, 4 are for auctions. An auction is entirely different from a retail setting... An item goes for the price the market (on that particular day) sets for it. I do 90% of my buying through auctions and have made some spectacular purchases and am exhilarated when I get a great buy. Sometimes, there is a coin I love, and will bid much higher than wholesale or retail, and sometimes, I still don't get the coin I want. If I felt I needed to have the coin, I would have bid higher- Someone obviously wanted it more than me. I think it is wonderful when members here get great deals on auctions because it is a setting where the person who is auctioning off the item is essentially saying they will take whatever price the market sets for the item. Quote:
As a seller I'd never do that and waste someone's time. As I said that is unprofessional at best. I take issue with that statement. Unprofessional at best? If I was going to describe a dealer as unprofessional at best, it would take a bit more than the dealer not accepting a low offer on a coin? I can think of many things that would annoy me as a buyer, but complaining and making an issue of a dealer not accepting a low offer or countering to a percentage of your liking seems akin to refusing to shake hands after a game. It is simply in poor taste. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1959 Posts |
Finish the negotiation. Then complain and pout if it doesn't go your way, but it will do you no good. You don't want the coin that bad if you let your ego get in the way. You didn't finish the negotiation. Period. Until you do, and I suspect you will not, how can you complain? You obviously have a top dollar which you have not submitted yet. Ego and principle are eating you up.
Or, this entire situation is actually a hypothetical situation which you are using to make a point, which would explain why you cannot provide a link to the coin in question, or actually finish negotiating.
Also, I'm not sure you are aware, your rhetoric comes across as whiney and entitled IMO.
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Valued Member
United States
234 Posts |
Quote:
Finish the negotiation. Then complain and pout if it doesn't go your way... I agree. Without finishing the negotiation (i.e., all 3 offers), there's no way to know how low the seller is willing to go. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1130 Posts |
I agree with most of the people above. Buffalosrock, are you a seller most of the time, or a buyer?
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Replies: 85 / Views: 11,333 |
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Posted 06/04/2014 8:03 pm
