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 Replies: 34 / Views: 6,032 |
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Bedrock of the Community
Australia
21788 Posts |
In my own country if most of the people think that a Law is patently stupid, I will go out of my way to ignore it.
Not so when I may be in a Country other than my own.
I will go out of my way to respect ANY Law in such cases.
Why?
I don't want to be caught out if I can help it.
Ignorance of the Law is no defense, so in some cases you just have to be lucky not to get caught when travelling.
Fortunately, I have never had an occasion to send or receive anything from Minnesota.
Perhaps some poor Minnesotan in the CCF may be able to explain why they have to suffer THIS Law.
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
4883 Posts |
Some of the other things I expect could yet happen in Minnesota on account of this legislation: 1) Some marginal coin shops may be forced to close; others will likely pass the costs of compliance along to their customers. 2) The large in-state mail order operations at which the law was aimed might well relocate, and then ironically also exclude Minnesota residents from doing business with them. 3) Coin shows may become problematic and/or downsized. Even a smaller time collector/vendor could exceed the $5K annual receipt threshold (maybe with just one coin transaction) and become subject to all the regulatory provisions. 4) Auction houses might refuse consignments originating in Minnesota, and ebay may also have to eventually bar sellers from the state. Colligo ergo sum
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Valued Member
United States
291 Posts |
Timely thread. I was just telling my wife (who is a judge) about this law last night as I was surfing ebay for obnoxiously expensive gold coins (not to buy, just to admire). We both agreed that someone, possibly a collector or dealer with mucho discretionary income, is going to inadvertently run afoul of this misguided law, and then we will see it challenged in Court. |
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Valued Member
United States
272 Posts |
Well I think people who are close to the borders of minnesota will simply rent a PO box in another state and have their coins shipped their. That might the boost the economy in other states, but it will certainly hurt the econonmy in Minnesota
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Moderator
 United States
188475 Posts |
I lived in Minnesota a long time ago. All of my coins came in the mail since a convenient coin shop was not available to me. What this law will do is effectively remove anyone like that from the hobby. They will just spend their money on other things, so I do not see it affecting their economy much, just their demographics.
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Valued Member
United States
272 Posts |
True but you have to think that if people are really into that hobby either 1. they are gonna get a PO box thats out of state or 2. Just move all together so I agree that it will change the demographics, but I disagree that it wont harmt the economy. Especailly if numismatic organizations and groups boycott the state
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Moderator
United States
188475 Posts |
I think you may be overestimating how much numismatics affect the economy.
Or am I seriously underestimating it?
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
20753 Posts |
I really don't see why all the concern. We have laws against murder, robbery, rape, home invasions, counterfeiting and on and on and on. So what? People do that all the time. And even with murder, so few are ever caught, prosecuted and even then, so many are back out on the streets soon. I know purchasing a coin in Minnesota may be difficult but then again so are many items. Naturally if your in that state and close to the border, you just go to a place across the border and buy what you want. YES I know it may be a crime but as I've said, so are the really big crimes and so few do anything about them.
I'd like to see more legislation about MURDER being stopped.
In one state you can't buy a coin but you could get killed by some nut.
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
4592 Posts |
Different enforcement mechanisms. The MN dept of licensing are the people who would find a coin dealer
'guilty' of violating the law and assess an administrative penalty (fine). Only if you choose to fight that does the legal system get involved to convert the fine into a collectable (default) judgement. And that's pretty much a rubber stamp - did the dept follow it's procedures? OK, done.
-----Burton 50+ year / Life / Emeritus ANA member (joined 12/1/1973) Life member: Numismatics International, CONECA Member: TNA, FtWCC, NETCC, EveryCountry (online) coin club Owned by three cats and a wife of 40+ years (joined 1983) Author: 3rd Edition of the Sample Slabs book, https://www.sampleslabs.info/ |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1068 Posts |
I agree with Carl... As I stated in another thread on this subject that this law is a gross violation of the Interstate Commerce Clause so it is unenforceable law and probably no one will ever get prosecuted or fined for it...
Honestly people, if you wanted to sell someone from Minnesota a coin, who is going to know or find out other than the parties involved?
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Moderator
United States
23522 Posts |
The economic impact varies. If you ask one of the Minnesota coin dealers who have closed in the last 6 months ( half of them) or the guy who can't sell his inherited coins on ebay without a license, you'll hear one thing. The large, national boiler-room bullion sellers they're actually targeting with the law don't care - they can afford the regulatory burden. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
506 Posts |
For those of you worried about selling on ebay, keep in mind that this only applies to dealers who sell $5000 or more per year in coins or bullion. Edited by coinlover168
01/01/2015 12:51 am
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
17884 Posts |
Quote:
The large, national boiler-room bullion sellers they're actually targeting with the law don't care - they can afford the regulatory burden. And if they are located out of state, the boiler-room operations are probably just ignoring it. It's not like they are real concerned with being fair, above board, and ethical. And I'm sure they know the law is unconstitutional and can't really be applied to them. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1068 Posts |
Quote:
And if they are located out of state, the boiler-room operations are probably just ignoring it. It's not like they are real concerned with being fair, above board, and ethical. And I'm sure they know the law is unconstitutional and can't really be applied to them.  If I were a large bullion business I would ignore the law and informed them of their violation if they said a word to me about it... |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1314 Posts |
A few years ago California passed similar laws regarding firearms transfers - from Federally licensed dealers outside the state to Federally licensed dealers inside the state. Increased costs and paperwork reduced the legal and traceable flow of sporting and collectable firearms. Statistics are hard to compile on the illegal flow, if that has increased.
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Replies: 34 / Views: 6,032 |
First Page
Posted 12/30/2014 8:58 pm
