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Vermont Joining Minnesota?

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Arkie's Avatar
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 Posted 01/01/2015  3:41 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Arkie to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
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SsuperDdave's Avatar
United States
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 Posted 01/01/2015  5:12 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I don't see a problem with that one. The fee is only $200 and the rest of the requirements are pretty much standard practice here in the city, for instance. Let them whine about the extra paperwork.
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jdmern's Avatar
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 Posted 01/01/2015  6:16 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jdmern to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
That is far more reasonable than the MN thing, basically adds in requirements for dealers to report just like pawn shops are supposed to...
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Joe2007's Avatar
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 Posted 01/01/2015  6:30 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Joe2007 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Far more reasonable than MN's regulations but I can still see how it could be considered burdensome. If a dealer has to do a lot of data entry, photography, and collect receipts/proof of ownership from the seller that is going to be reflected in his offer. I'd bet it would make a lot of low value accumulations practically worthless. Why would a dealer purchase a $150 accumulation of a few common Morgans and some junk silver if all of his potential profits are going to be eaten up by the reporting requirements.
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SsuperDdave's Avatar
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 Posted 01/01/2015  6:41 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
That's already standard business procedure in any big town.
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jdmern's Avatar
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 Posted 01/01/2015  6:45 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jdmern to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Any kind of regulation is burdensome.

Not all regulation is bad.
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Joe2007's Avatar
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 Posted 01/01/2015  7:00 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Joe2007 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Not all regulation is bad.


I can agree with that. Nobody likes to see easy outlets for stolen goods. But do the costs outweigh the perceived gains?

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 Posted 01/01/2015  7:05 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Groszy to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
How would they determine "proof of ownership"? True enough, you can have a receipt for a sale, but when it comes to inheritance, CRH, private deals (say, Craigslist), or purchases you made of bullion a decade or two ago and/or have just lost the receipt...

Proof of ownership is the only thing I can think of that could potentially be a killer.

That, and who exactly is considered a "dealer", even if the law doesn't stipulate anything above 1% like MN, it will most certainly stipulate .999 and .925 and possibly .900 where silver is concerned. Little Joey Small-Bullion living in Vermont buying ASE's on ebay might be violating the law if he doesn't get certified.
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SsuperDdave's Avatar
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 Posted 01/01/2015  7:11 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Proof of ownership doesn't matter as much as a firm identification of the seller and selling circumstances. I can't sell a Morgan in Philadelphia without me and my ID getting imaged, either specifically or by video cams automatically.
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Conder101's Avatar
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 Posted 01/02/2015  11:14 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Conder101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
How would they determine "proof of ownership"? True enough, you can have a receipt for a sale, but when it comes to inheritance, CRH, private deals (say, Craigslist), or purchases you made of bullion a decade or two ago and/or have just lost the receipt...

Under the regulations the seller can sign an affidavit of ownership.

One annoying feature is that in the case of buying a "lot" or group of items a number has to be assigned to the lot and a sub-lot number to each item in the group. Buy a couple rolls of dimes and you might have to record 100 items with lot and sub lot numbers potentially with a written description of each one by date and mint. Have to take pictures of the items, the seller and the sellers government issued id. The records have to be kept for three years.

The buyer also has to hold the precious metal items for 10 days before they can be sold. That could be a problem in a volatile market

As mentioned this is nowhere near as bad as MN and similar to many local second hand dealers restrictions
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Russian Federation
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 Posted 01/02/2015  12:54 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add january1may to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Good thing I'm not intending to sell any of my coins... most of my coin purchases were made from bargain bins at the Vernisage open market. Never seen anyone ever making a receipt in that place... not anywhere on the open parts anyway.

Taganka coin market is similar; the Hobby City mall is little better (some stores do provide receipts, but most still don't).
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denco7's Avatar
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 Posted 01/02/2015  1:33 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add denco7 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Go over to the Numismatic Crime forum, for every thread there reporting a crime, there are posts following saying, "I hope these people get caught" "Somebody should do something about these thefts."

Yet every time regulations are put in place to do just that, everyone screams " unnecessary bureaucracy. Can't catch people dealing in stolen property unless you document the ownership of the coins that are being sold.
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Bryan78's Avatar
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 Posted 01/02/2015  2:10 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Bryan78 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Go over to the Numismatic Crime forum, for every thread there reporting a crime, there are posts following saying, "I hope these people get caught" "Somebody should do something about these thefts."

Yet every time regulations are put in place to do just that, everyone screams " unnecessary bureaucracy. Can't catch people dealing in stolen property unless you document the ownership of the coins that are being sold.



Some regulations (though well intended) a very poorly thought out, written, and are especially laking in enforcement and punishment and only seem to favor the big dogs instead of affecting everyone on a level playing field...

I think most people's biggest gripe on the Numismatic Crime Forum is the lack of punishment for crimes that are committed...
Edited by Bryan78
01/02/2015 2:11 pm
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Conder101's Avatar
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 Posted 01/03/2015  06:21 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Conder101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Yet every time regulations are put in place to do just that, everyone screams " unnecessary bureaucracy. Can't catch people dealing in stolen property unless you document the ownership of the coins that are being sold.

Actually I think most of us would not be too upset with the Vermont regulations. They aren't that onerous on the customer but they could be a problem on the dealer with the each individual piece record keeping on bulk lot silver, and the holding issue could also be a problem, but I can understand why they have it.
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