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12 Caesars' Set - Advice!

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Valued Member

Canada
242 Posts
 Posted 01/12/2015  9:06 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add markbaer to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
I've been on the lookout for a 12 Caesars set for a while now. There is a set on ebay I've been watching for a while:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/12152093631...RK:MEBIDX:IT

Can anyone give me an idea of what a ballpark reasonable price would be for this?
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Ancientnoob's Avatar
United States
5155 Posts
 Posted 01/12/2015  9:21 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Ancientnoob to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I have bought from this dealer before and I trust them as far as authenticity. I would imagine that each coin would have to be evaluated on its own to really tell you if the lot is worth the money asked. I would suspect a set in the general range of conditions and rarities they sell, would be $5-6K, plus I am sure the dealer has a margin.
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Medieval's Avatar
3772 Posts
 Posted 01/12/2015  9:23 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Medieval to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Methinks it's more fun to find them separately and get a type you want for each emperor (plus a genuine Caligula one).
Edited by Medieval
01/12/2015 9:28 pm
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echizento's Avatar
United States
23731 Posts
 Posted 01/12/2015  9:24 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add echizento to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
IMO the rarest coin is the Caligula which he states is a reproduction. Given that the rest of the coins are real than based on what I see of there condition the most they would be worth is maybe $5,000. Still I would not spend that kind of money unless every coin has been certified.
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United States
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 Posted 01/12/2015  9:30 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add FVRIVS RVFVS to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Long and short answer

Overpriced !

Buying a set like this is akin to having someone else climb Mt Everest for you.
The challenge is doing it yourself ! Not simply buying space to put your name and logo on the equipment.

Why collect the 12 Caesars ?

"Because it's there"
Edmund Hillary
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chrsmat71's Avatar
United States
4970 Posts
 Posted 01/12/2015  9:52 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add chrsmat71 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'm with med, I think if you want to spend that much, you could put together your own rocking 12 caesars set. even if you don't want to invest lots of time, you could probably buy off vcoins and get some pretty good stuff.
i'd dip my toe into the ancients pool a bit at a time, maybe just start with a nice representative coin of that crew and go from there.
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arnoldoe's Avatar
Canada
266 Posts
 Posted 01/12/2015  11:11 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add arnoldoe to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I would think you could do it for quite a bit less than 9000

He bought those ones for $2750 from CNG + the 15 percent buyers premium

http://www.cngcoins.com/Coin.aspx?CoinID=268700
Edited by arnoldoe
01/12/2015 11:11 pm
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Medieval's Avatar
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 Posted 01/12/2015  11:15 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Medieval to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
good find 'arnoldoe'
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Canada
242 Posts
 Posted 01/12/2015  11:27 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add markbaer to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Hmmm... ok thanks for all of the advice...I'll probably pass on this then. I got the price down to $4900 at least, without trying to push more. But the link from CNG shows that I could find it cheaper yet probably.

So far I've been buying random coins mostly...some nicer ones like the Celtic staters I posted months ago, and random silver denarii. And I have lots of uncleaned coins that are still soaking. I'm now trying to come up with some kind of approach...so I figured the 12 Caesars, and then the more renowned names that anyone would learn about in a class about ancient history. These are more for my own enjoyment, but I have to say that they make amazing conversation pieces at dinners... (A bit off-topic, but did you know that you can also buy authentic fossils - e.g. fossil T. rex teeth? Or an authentic Roman dagger?).

I'd be a bit worried about building my own set of 12 Caesars one at a time, at least at this point, because of not being able to recognize fakes very well. My only real strategy for this is to research the seller as extensively as possible before buying (and of course coming here). I've researched this dealer a fair bit, and he seems quite good.

Echizento - when you say that you'd only buy them if they were certified - do you mean slabbed, e.g. by NGC?
Edited by markbaer
01/12/2015 11:28 pm
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echizento's Avatar
United States
23731 Posts
 Posted 01/12/2015  11:41 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add echizento to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Not really, They can be certified without being slabbed. David Sear for example would certified every coin and issue a certificate.
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caesar77's Avatar
United States
356 Posts
 Posted 01/13/2015  04:14 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add caesar77 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I know some of the story about this infamous set, someone bought it, and CNG had not made a clear job of stating that Caligula was fake. Then that buyer rejected it and they clearly stated, Caligula was fake at the second auction. Then it sold to this guy and he wants a three hundred percent return! Ha! I think most of the coins are ok, not special. I would like to pick my own and indeed have and while I paid more than he did I am happier. I would reject this set. Also, who the heck would collect this set and tolerate a fake? Perhaps they did not know? Well... CNG should have thrown a real Caligula in there and made the whole set real. In the end if you fear fakes, best bet is CNG. As you can see the pickings there are far less expensive than what this seller wants.
Edited by caesar77
01/13/2015 04:23 am
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United States
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 Posted 01/13/2015  05:22 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add FVRIVS RVFVS to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The traditional 12 Caesars set is of course silver denarii. If you have deep pockets you can go in gold ! But be prepared to spend some substantial lucre. Not being the 'first class' type collector I long ago made the choice to assemble a set in bronze. The primary obstacle of course is that annoying fellow Otho. The Senate never issued any for this guy so after 40 years I am still seeking a decent provincial. Julius too has so far eluded me.
But he can't hide forever !

Now bronze does have one big advantage. Emperors like Tiberius Caligula and Claudius are extremely expensive in silver as Nero had issued a recall on early silver and re-issued the metal at a new standard of 90%. You will pay through the nose for a VF denarius of Claudius. For a fraction of the cost you might pick up an EF As of Claudius that will "knock your socks off". Even a VF sestertius of Claudius will run you half of what a 'buff' denarius will cost.

The same with Caligula. A member here not too long ago picked up a Spanish issued Caligula As. The coin is an absolute joy to see. Exquisite is the best word (Museum quality !). I needed to push him a bit to take the plunge. He has nooooo regrets.
Another member found a near VF Claudius As (Spain again) for $75 !

I would certainly never turn down a denarius of a Julio Claudian emperor if the price were right.
But that's the rub isn't it. The price is almost always insane ! When the alternative is museum quality coins for a fraction of the cost I have no problem with my lowly collection of bronze coins.

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Canada
579 Posts
 Posted 01/13/2015  08:29 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Whizb4ng to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I know some of the story about this infamous set, someone bought it, and CNG had not made a clear job of stating that Caligula was fake. Then that buyer rejected it and they clearly stated, Caligula was fake at the second auction.


Did he not read? It says in the description as it does with all CNG lots.This is the original posting: http://www.cngcoins.com/Coin.aspx?CoinID=268700. That is his own fault.
Valued Member
Canada
242 Posts
 Posted 01/13/2015  10:42 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add markbaer to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Interesting story...thanks for sharing it caesar. I've started searching CNG coins and other auctions. My other hope was that by buying them altogether I might get a better price (like buying 2 cars instead of 1).
Thanks echizento and FR...I would love to collect the set in gold, but I'd have to convince myself that it'd double as a decent investment at the same time (which from what I've read, may not be the most accurate...! at least if you're expecting a reasonable return). Someone posted a set in gold for about 40,000 Swiss francs a while back I think, but the auction was from 2007 or so (?), and from what I can find, the price for a similar set is much higher now.
I have a fairly large set of 142 unattributed denarii coming from a German collector/MD who is retiring...and another set of 50 or so from months ago which I haven't really gone through yet. Maybe I should try to create my own set then...although I'm guessing that there won't be any of the more valuable ones included.
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arnoldoe's Avatar
Canada
266 Posts
 Posted 01/13/2015  10:47 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add arnoldoe to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
yeah, actually The ebay seller only paid $2400, it sold for $2750, but I guess whoever won it didn't pay so it was re-listed and sold for $2400

http://www.cngcoins.com/Coin.aspx?CoinID=268700 - original

http://www.cngcoins.com/Coin.aspx?CoinID=275271 - re-listing
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Medieval's Avatar
3772 Posts
 Posted 01/13/2015  10:52 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Medieval to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Add 15% buyer's premium and you get $2,760 - quite a difference to the nearly $9K he is asking.
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