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 Replies: 102 / Views: 17,332 |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2781 Posts |
men have a tendency to gather, women have a tendency to distribute. been that way for a hundred thousand years. unless of course it's end tables, apparently we NEED a dozen or so in my house at any given time... Quote:
My wife says she sells to a lot of female customers. Roughly 1/3 maybe? actual females or men using their wife's accounts? I know a number of male friends who's wife's set up ebay accounts to buy bric a brac etc and they ended up using those accounts instead of setting up their own. (same for paypal, especially if the wife is the one handling the bills) I didn't start using my own account until I started selling. Edited by Wade
11/16/2015 12:01 pm
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2495 Posts |
Getting back to the original topic (no disrespect intended regarding the men/women collecting debate), I see the main reason why the Canadian coin collecting market is very unhealthy is as follows:
1) aging population of the collector (similar to, but hopefully not the same as what has happened to the stamp collecting hobby),
2) an oversupply of coins (specifically I mean ICCS graded material) available to a finite (and possibly dwindling)group of collectors,
but most importantly 3) the fact that since the financial crisis of 2008, the coin collector has taken a huge financial 'hit' twice and has yet to recover financially or emotionally. They are very 'gun shy' to get back into the buying (investing or speculating) of Canadian coins.
Just a quick explanation of how they (we've) been burned twice.
Obviously, first, in the fall of 2008, with the financial crisis, the rampant money making engine of the coin industry from the years 2000 to 2008, stopped immediately. It was like running into a brick wall. I should know as I was buying and selling (to collectors AND dealers) and this stopped completely (at the prices I was getting before).
The second whammy came to the collectors came when after the F.C. of 2008, for the next 3 years, the collectors stayed away from coins and purchased nothing but precious metals. Remember from 2008 to 2011, we had a HUGE run up of gold and silver and at every coin show within this time period, dealers were selling absolutely no coins, but they were selling precious metals and bullion coins like hotcakes.
Well.......mid 2011 comes along and what happens?
The price of gold and silver tanks!! And has yet to recover.
The collector now has two assets on their hands (their coins from pre-2008 that have dropped in price and a truckload of precious metals that post 2011 have totally tanked.
They're not feeling too good about spending a lot of money on coins now aren't they?
We are currently in a huge 'dip' in the coin market and I believe a recovery is possible ONLY when the price of gold and silver takes off again and reaches the high values they had at the peak in 2011.
Without this happening, nothing is moving and in my opinion, all the present talk from the dealers that tell you the market is great and they're selling a lot of goods at good prices is BS and propaganda.
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Pillar of the Community
710 Posts |
Bullion prices definitely do affect the "traders" looking to make a buck. One dealer told me their biggest volume of sales is bullion from people looking to invest / park cash. Of course, dealers make money of both sides of the trade! For collectors I'm not sure bullion prices matter much. Did RCM reduce their NCLT prices since 2008? It is more #1 and #2 (less demand and more supply) that are driving down prices in Canada. |
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Pillar of the Community
 Canada
5400 Posts |
Doubleeagle............... my accountant and the CRA both would tell you , you are dead wrong about the coin market. Since we moved to close to the US border and ship from the US we have never done better. The US coin shows and ebay both have given us at least, an opportunity to deal in Canadian coins in the US with very little issues. Granted I will agree with you that coin sales for Canadian coins in Canada are not the best. That said the best Canadian coins generally end up in the states. We have the sales figures to back it up. Last GST report over 80 per cent of our sales were export. The Canadian coin market is far from dead, it is evolving and one either adapts or dies. We do a one day market every week here on the lower mainland and there are a solid group of coin people who visit with us and buy every week. There are around 25 per cent of them who are under 40. There is hope ! |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
5324 Posts |
Yes, you were smart enough to move closer to your main US clients,, most of them probably is buying the better grade coins with a 30% exchange rate and no tax versus a Canadian collector. Smart dealers adjust with marketplace pay less and sell accordingly, but I still maintain we need new younger generation to get interested in the hobby, how I'm not sure? Also as a collector stuff we bought a few years ago at top of market, we are stuck with coins that are about 1/3 to 1/2 values, hard to get some of us motivated to buy more.
Edited by john100
11/17/2015 10:27 am
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2845 Posts |
Pacificoin from a dealer's perspective if there's health in US markets for Canadian coins I can see why that's a good thing.
But for Canadian collectors such as myself I'm sure you can understand this trend is somewhat disturbing because of the added cost including exchange rates, shipping and export taxes for Canadians to buy back Cdn coin from the US market. On the other hand, if the movement of Cdn collector coin to the US continues on the longterm, it will certainly continue to diminish supply within our own borders. I'm curious, do you see this to be a negative or positive impact for present or future Canadian coin collectors living in Canada?
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
5400 Posts |
Both negative and positive. From a negative point of view, certainly the exchange rate makes it an adventure for Canadians to compete with Americans. One of the bigger factors as well is the tax aspect. It is my opinion that coins bought for investment purposes should be zero rated for GST ,HST purposes. Although I never recommend coins as an investment, there are many collectors who do see it that way. Many American states agree as well as most do not charge sales tax on coins .
From a positive point of view ,the state of the market is such in Canada that trends will have to change and adjust, mostly downwards. This will help as you will get more bang for the buck. Also another thing to remember is that exchange rates do go the other way and oil will rebound eventually and this will have a positive effect on our currency and commodities.
There is no need to despair ,the coin hobby will be around for a good while yet. I have seen the hobby in wayyyyyy worse shape back in the early 1990 s when our store as well as many others were reduced to selling baseball cards to keep the doors open and the employees paid.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2845 Posts |
Pacificoin, thanks very much for offering your insight. So I take it you're safe-keeping the hockey cards, if worse comes to worst?  |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
3049 Posts |
Hockey cards are an even more fickle industry...
Really the only value of a card increases as a star player rises... most over the long term don't pan out to become superstars..
My belief is that hockey cards have gone the way of the beanie baby & cabbage patch dolls... there's probably still a market... but it's super super small and unless you have something rare it's usually worth not much more than the paper it's printed on.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2495 Posts |
I agree with Pacificcoin regarding adjusting to current conditions and having the Canadian Trends prices drop (as they should do). But I have to laugh at the never ending ebay listings from dealers who still list their coins at full trends with no 'make an offer' option and who list these coins, month after month and year after year. Same coin, same listing as it never sells. At coin shows, some dealers are getting the message. Used to be the standard amongst dealers was selling at 80% of trends. A good many of them now are selling anywhere between 50% to 70% of trends. There are still a few that still ask 80% of trends and I have no problem telling them (nicely as I can) that they are behind the times. These are the coins that sit in their showcase, year after year. |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1192 Posts |
re: sales tax on collectible/investment coins- I like the system some of the US states have. Where single transaction totals above a certain threshold (often $1000) are tax exempt. Single sales below that are taxable for both precious metals and collectible coins.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2845 Posts |
Heck, shows what I know of hockey cards. Nada!
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Valued Member
Canada
495 Posts |
I guess it all boils down to what perch you are sitting on, from a dealer perspective the future looks great for the investor types it looks like a case of hives on the way, the collectors who are hoarding for the big day well, that's another topic. The true died in the blue collector who is enjoying the fun aspect and the hunt and be darned about where it all ends up when the time comes to leave it all behind, the sky is always blue. To the auction companies here in Canada at least they must be shaking their heads and pockets these days when we see so many purchases way below what they were expecting to get and pity the poor sellers looking for a windfall.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
3049 Posts |
Came across that at the Manitoba coin show double:
1880 (narrow 0) newfie penny... in VF.... dealer was asking above trends and said they would "discount" it at a price that was exactly at trends...
I passed.. I think I can still find a nicer coin with a bit better discount from trends...
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
5324 Posts |
Generally auctions don't care as long a sale occur usually the sale will incur double juice, recently found out the highly rare or priced coins are listed with no sellers juice.
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Replies: 102 / Views: 17,332 |
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Posted 11/17/2015 08:01 am
