Coin Community Family of Web Sites Join Thousands of Coin, Bullion, & Money Collectors
Royal Estate Auctions - $1 Coin AuctionsVancouvers #1 Coin and Paper Money Dealer Specializing in Modern Numismatics 300,000 items to help build your collection! Join Thousands of Coin, Bullion, & Money Collectors Royal Canadian Mint products, Canadian, Polish, American, and world coins and banknotes. Coin, Banknote and Medal Collectors's Online Mall








Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?


This page may contain links that result in small commissions to keep this free site up and running.

Welcome Guest! Registering and/or logging in will remove the anchor (bottom) ads. It's Free!

Junk Silver Prices Thread - Report In Here

To participate in the forum you must log in or register.
Author Previous TopicReplies: 842 / Views: 96,077Next Topic
Page: of 57
Pillar of the Community
United States
877 Posts
 Posted 10/30/2021  10:53 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Dowhat to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I think this is the way JM is advertising. The current "spot price" of $1fv of 90% is $17.30, they will offer an additional $2.50 on top of that for a total of $19.80.

There is no "spot" price for 90%. "Spot" silver price represents the value of 1 ozt of .999 silver.
90% silver is priced based on the "melt" value which is calculated as Spot price x .715. Anything added to the melt value is the premium paid above the melt price.
The add should state $2.50 over melt, not over Spot. They are two different things.
Pillar of the Community
Learn More...
NumisEd's Avatar
United States
5191 Posts
 Posted 10/30/2021  11:22 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add NumisEd to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I start to wonder if dealers purposedly create all this confusion about spot prices, face values, melt values, etc. to defraud buyers and take more money from them than warranted.
Pillar of the Community
United States
877 Posts
 Posted 10/30/2021  11:27 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Dowhat to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
As am example , referencing my receipts, on 12 Sep 2020, silver spot price was $26.70. I purchased 4 cull Peace dollars for $104.00 or $26.00 ea. Seventy cents below spot.
I also purchased 90% @ 20x FV on the same day. The "melt" price, $26.70 (spot) x .715 = $19.10 (melt). Thus, I paid a 90 cent premium above the "melt" price of $19.10 which is roughly a 5% premium above the melt price.
I hope this explains the difference between spot and melt price. The terms cannot be used interchangeably in regards to junk silver and .999 silver. I can think of more simple terms to explain this.
Pillar of the Community
Learn More...
NumisEd's Avatar
United States
5191 Posts
 Posted 10/30/2021  11:31 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add NumisEd to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
The "melt" price, $26.70 (spot) x .715 = $19.10 (melt). Thus, I paid a 90 cent premium above the "melt" price of $19.10 which is roughly a 5% premium above the melt price.


You don't know that.
Unless you weigh every coin individually and calculated the real melt value of each.
Valued Member
Kurrykid's Avatar
United States
455 Posts
 Posted 10/30/2021  11:40 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Kurrykid to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I've bought a ton of junk silver over the years and I have found that most of the time, they weight more than the .715 on a $10 roll. Of course, if you have a bunch of slicks like Barber dimes that won't be the case but overall, that .715 holds true. It's an average, not every coin, and you will do fine if you buy it using that calculation IMHO.
Pillar of the Community
United States
877 Posts
 Posted 10/30/2021  11:51 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Dowhat to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
You don't know that.
Unless you weigh every coin individually and calculated the real melt value of each.

I do know that. I am not sure that you understand how junk silver is valued. I is traded at FV, not by weight.
Pillar of the Community
Adam_E's Avatar
United States
4846 Posts
 Posted 10/30/2021  11:53 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Adam_E to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I understand what you are saying dowhat, but in common parlance the two words are essentially interchangeable, and JM's advertisement highlights that. If you purchased a silver dime for $2, no one would understand what you mean if you told people you bought a silver dime for $22 below spot, it conveys absolutely no meaningful information.
Pillar of the Community
Adam_E's Avatar
United States
4846 Posts
 Posted 10/30/2021  12:06 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Adam_E to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
According to provident metals using spot price to calculate junk silver is an industry standard: https://blog.providentmetals.com/ov....YX1st8D3YlQ


Quote:
Exceptions

Because there are always exceptions:

Junk Silver, even though it is a composite, is calculated using the "Over Spot" formula. It's an industry standard..

]
Edited by Adam_E
10/30/2021 12:06 pm
Pillar of the Community
United States
877 Posts
 Posted 10/30/2021  12:17 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Dowhat to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I start to wonder if dealers purposedly create all this confusion about spot prices, face values, melt values, etc. to defraud buyers and take more money from them than warranted.
If you sell constitutional silver to a dealer, the price paid will for FV in relation to the current "melt" price, not the spot price. This applies to buying as well. A dealer is not going to weigh your bag and calculate the actual silver content within. It is just not done that way. At least not anywhere I am familiar with.
It is really not confusing at all if you understand how it works which I have tried my best to explain. It is the business standard and provides one with the knowledge of knowing a good deal from a bad one.
Before I make a purchase of junk I call local dealers to compare premiums, that is the amount above the melt value. They are not all the same and some are ridiculously high.
I must assume that you do not stack NumisEd.
Valued Member
Kurrykid's Avatar
United States
455 Posts
 Posted 10/30/2021  12:38 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Kurrykid to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I don't think it's that hard to understand either. If you are buying a roll of quarters which is $10 FV, multiple that by .715 which gives you 7.15 ozt of silver. If spot is $24, and if you are paying spot for it, it would cost you $171.60 ($24 x 7.15 so 17.2x). Anything over that is the premium you are paying. So paying $200 means you are paying 20x which is $27.97/oz ($200 / 7.15)...almost $4 over spot.
Edited by Kurrykid
10/30/2021 12:39 pm
Pillar of the Community
United States
877 Posts
 Posted 10/30/2021  12:42 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Dowhat to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
[quote]understand what you are saying dowhat, but in common parlance the two words are essentially interchangeable, and JM's advertisement highlights that. If you purchased a silver dime for $2, no one would understand what you mean if you told people you bought a silver dime for $22 below spot, it conveys absolutely no meaningful information.[/quote
I do not know anyone in any circumstance that would make that statement. The appropriate reply would be, in this scenario, " I purchased a silver dime @ $20 FV". 20 X .1 = 2.
Melt value is a derivative of spot price. As one changes, so does the other.
AdamE, read further down to the Summary of the article you posted.
Pillar of the Community
United States
877 Posts
 Posted 10/30/2021  1:47 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Dowhat to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
KurryKid, your calculations are correct based on the total weight of pure silver contained in $10 FV. About $4 over spot which is the average mark up for 90% junk. Compare that to the average price for circulation strike ASE's @ about 9 or 10 dollars over spot, Maple Leaf, spot + $4.77, Britannia's spot + $7.77, generic rounds spot + $2.70.
These are todays SD Bullion prices. As well as 90% about $22.30 x FV.
My LCS today is @ $20.27 X FV today for 90%. Silver rounds usually have the lowest premium followed by 90% silver.
Pillar of the Community
Learn More...
NumisEd's Avatar
United States
5191 Posts
 Posted 10/30/2021  1:59 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add NumisEd to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
My LCS today is @ $20.27 X FV today for 90%. Silver rounds usually have the lowest premium followed by 90% silver.


The melt value of $1 Junk is at most $17.34 today (less if the coins contain less silver due to wear). https://www.NGCcoin.com/price-guide...-values.aspx
Since $20.27/$17.34 = 1.169, the premium is about 17%. Seems steep to me.
In contrast, a Silver Philharmonic (typically the cheapest official bullion coin) is at $27.57. A 14.83% premium.

Might as well buy that one.
Edited by NumisEd
10/30/2021 2:02 pm
Pillar of the Community
United States
877 Posts
 Posted 10/30/2021  2:23 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Dowhat to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
When TSHTF, I would feel more comfortable with my Franklin halves than Philharmonics. But that's just me.
Valued Member
Kurrykid's Avatar
United States
455 Posts
 Posted 10/30/2021  2:28 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Kurrykid to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
When TSHTF, I would feel more comfortable with my Franklin halves than Philharmonics. But that's just me.


I tend to agree with that statement overall. However, we do not know what the exact SHTF situation will be....what caused it, what is deemed necessary at the time, etc. Because of that, I make sure I stack all different kinds just to be sure I have what may be needed at the time.
  Previous TopicReplies: 842 / Views: 96,077Next Topic
Page: of 57

To participate in the forum you must log in or register.



    




Disclaimer: While a tremendous amount of effort goes into ensuring the accuracy of the information contained in this site, Coin Community assumes no liability for errors. Copyright 2005 - 2026 Coin Community Family- all rights reserved worldwide. Use of any images or content on this website without prior written permission of Coin Community or the original lender is strictly prohibited.
Contact Us  |  Advertise Here  |  Privacy Policy / Terms of Use

Coin Community Forum © 2005 - 2026 Coin Community Forums
It took 0.45 seconds to rattle this change. Forums