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Replies: 842 / Views: 96,077 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
877 Posts |
Quote:I think this is the way JM is advertising. The current "spot price" of $1fv of 90% is $17.30, they will offer an additional $2.50 on top of that for a total of $19.80.  There is no "spot" price for 90%. "Spot" silver price represents the value of 1 ozt of .999 silver. 90% silver is priced based on the "melt" value which is calculated as Spot price x .715. Anything added to the melt value is the premium paid above the melt price. The add should state $2.50 over melt, not over Spot. They are two different things.
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
5191 Posts |
I start to wonder if dealers purposedly create all this confusion about spot prices, face values, melt values, etc. to defraud buyers and take more money from them than warranted.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
877 Posts |
As am example , referencing my receipts, on 12 Sep 2020, silver spot price was $26.70. I purchased 4 cull Peace dollars for $104.00 or $26.00 ea. Seventy cents below spot. I also purchased 90% @ 20x FV on the same day. The "melt" price, $26.70 (spot) x .715 = $19.10 (melt). Thus, I paid a 90 cent premium above the "melt" price of $19.10 which is roughly a 5% premium above the melt price. I hope this explains the difference between spot and melt price. The terms cannot be used interchangeably in regards to junk silver and .999 silver. I can think of more simple terms to explain this.
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
5191 Posts |
Quote: The "melt" price, $26.70 (spot) x .715 = $19.10 (melt). Thus, I paid a 90 cent premium above the "melt" price of $19.10 which is roughly a 5% premium above the melt price. You don't know that. Unless you weigh every coin individually and calculated the real melt value of each.
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Valued Member
United States
455 Posts |
I've bought a ton of junk silver over the years and I have found that most of the time, they weight more than the .715 on a $10 roll. Of course, if you have a bunch of slicks like Barber dimes that won't be the case but overall, that .715 holds true. It's an average, not every coin, and you will do fine if you buy it using that calculation IMHO.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
877 Posts |
Quote:You don't know that. Unless you weigh every coin individually and calculated the real melt value of each.  I do know that. I am not sure that you understand how junk silver is valued. I is traded at FV, not by weight.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4846 Posts |
I understand what you are saying dowhat, but in common parlance the two words are essentially interchangeable, and JM's advertisement highlights that. If you purchased a silver dime for $2, no one would understand what you mean if you told people you bought a silver dime for $22 below spot, it conveys absolutely no meaningful information.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4846 Posts |
According to provident metals using spot price to calculate junk silver is an industry standard: https://blog.providentmetals.com/ov....YX1st8D3YlQQuote: Exceptions
Because there are always exceptions:
Junk Silver, even though it is a composite, is calculated using the "Over Spot" formula. It's an industry standard..
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Edited by Adam_E 10/30/2021 12:06 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
877 Posts |
Quote:I start to wonder if dealers purposedly create all this confusion about spot prices, face values, melt values, etc. to defraud buyers and take more money from them than warranted.  If you sell constitutional silver to a dealer, the price paid will for FV in relation to the current "melt" price, not the spot price. This applies to buying as well. A dealer is not going to weigh your bag and calculate the actual silver content within. It is just not done that way. At least not anywhere I am familiar with. It is really not confusing at all if you understand how it works which I have tried my best to explain. It is the business standard and provides one with the knowledge of knowing a good deal from a bad one. Before I make a purchase of junk I call local dealers to compare premiums, that is the amount above the melt value. They are not all the same and some are ridiculously high. I must assume that you do not stack NumisEd.
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Valued Member
United States
455 Posts |
I don't think it's that hard to understand either. If you are buying a roll of quarters which is $10 FV, multiple that by .715 which gives you 7.15 ozt of silver. If spot is $24, and if you are paying spot for it, it would cost you $171.60 ($24 x 7.15 so 17.2x). Anything over that is the premium you are paying. So paying $200 means you are paying 20x which is $27.97/oz ($200 / 7.15)...almost $4 over spot.
Edited by Kurrykid 10/30/2021 12:39 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
877 Posts |
[quote]understand what you are saying dowhat, but in common parlance the two words are essentially interchangeable, and JM's advertisement highlights that. If you purchased a silver dime for $2, no one would understand what you mean if you told people you bought a silver dime for $22 below spot, it conveys absolutely no meaningful information.  [/quote I do not know anyone in any circumstance that would make that statement. The appropriate reply would be, in this scenario, " I purchased a silver dime @ $20 FV". 20 X .1 = 2. Melt value is a derivative of spot price. As one changes, so does the other. AdamE, read further down to the Summary of the article you posted.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
877 Posts |
KurryKid, your calculations are correct based on the total weight of pure silver contained in $10 FV. About $4 over spot which is the average mark up for 90% junk. Compare that to the average price for circulation strike ASE's @ about 9 or 10 dollars over spot, Maple Leaf, spot + $4.77, Britannia's spot + $7.77, generic rounds spot + $2.70. These are todays SD Bullion prices. As well as 90% about $22.30 x FV. My LCS today is @ $20.27 X FV today for 90%. Silver rounds usually have the lowest premium followed by 90% silver.
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
5191 Posts |
Quote: My LCS today is @ $20.27 X FV today for 90%. Silver rounds usually have the lowest premium followed by 90% silver. The melt value of $1 Junk is at most $17.34 today (less if the coins contain less silver due to wear). https://www.NGCcoin.com/price-guide...-values.aspxSince $20.27/$17.34 = 1.169, the premium is about 17%. Seems steep to me. In contrast, a Silver Philharmonic (typically the cheapest official bullion coin) is at $27.57. A 14.83% premium. Might as well buy that one.
Edited by NumisEd 10/30/2021 2:02 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
877 Posts |
When TSHTF, I would feel more comfortable with my Franklin halves than Philharmonics. But that's just me.
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Valued Member
United States
455 Posts |
Quote:When TSHTF, I would feel more comfortable with my Franklin halves than Philharmonics. But that's just me. I tend to agree with that statement overall. However, we do not know what the exact SHTF situation will be....what caused it, what is deemed necessary at the time, etc. Because of that, I make sure I stack all different kinds just to be sure I have what may be needed at the time.
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Replies: 842 / Views: 96,077 |