Watch Out For This Seller

mahgobbi--

quote:

---

I'm clueless...what's wrong with that listing? Are you saying that the silver and gold coins in those photos are counterfeit? I don't see how you can even tell from that photo. Even enlarged, it seems too small to determine whether or not the coins are authentic.

---

Putting aside any judgment about whether you are clueless or not, here are a couple of things wrong with that listing:

1. Coins pictured are not the coins you will receive.

2. I count at least four counterfeits using the smaller picture--I don't need the supersize photo to pick them out--it is ILLEGAL to sell copies or counterfeits without a stamp of the word COPY or REPLICA on them.

3. 65 grams is 2.29 ounces. Even if you assume that all of the 'coins ' are 90% silver (many non-US silver coins contain much LESS than 90% silver), the retail value of the silver is--TA DA--$34.52. If there is even a real gold coin included, how much could that possibly add to the value of a buyer's counterfeit and .500 silver?

If you want to pay or think that it's OK for others to pay over $100 including shipping for counterfeits or even real junk that they could turn around and sell to a dealer for much less than half of that, then that's your right. I happen to think listings like that are simply BAD for coin collecting and bad for all of us, whether or not the seller is a member of this forum. You are free to disagree, but I am free to report him not only to ebay, but to law enforcement. We all have a collective responsibility to keep our hobby safe from these predatory and fraudulent sellers.

Here's a question for you to think about: I would be more than willing to testify during any criminal proceedings on behalf of the prosecution--would you be willing to testify on behalf of the defense?

Also, what would a possible defense for such a seller be other than ignorance of the law or stupidity regarding the authentication of coins?

If you are emailing the sellers prior to reporting them, I guess it's fair; however, I still think you are being picky to a large extent. To give you an example, I don't find it "scamming" or "fraudulant" to post a photo of 5,000 wheat pennies and state in the listing that the customer will receive xx number of random coins from that pile. There are plenty of great sellers out there who have done this and the buyers all know that they are receiving random pennies.

I also personally disagree with actively seeking out people to report, just to fill your time. No, I would not turn my head if I witnessed a crime; however, I also wouldn't roam the streets in the projects at 2am just to try to find somebody breaking the law.

While I completely agree with everyone here on reporting sellers who are truly scamming their customers by selling counterfeit coins, etc., I think there's a fine line...the person selling the group of random pennies with a stock photo from his/her entire hoard isn't trying to deceive or scam anyone. It's just a lot easier than having to pre-sort the pennies take extra photos, simply to avoid being reported to ebay by somebody who just wants to turn people in.

I don't mean any disrespect. Just my opinion.

Is his Minnesota coin really an error? From what I know it doesn't look like extra trees. The extra tree would be to the right of the state and pass the fourth tree ..no? chime in because I have 10 MN's I have to look over again

The reason I don't approve of stock photos in your penny situation is that a seller could pose a stock photo and put all good early dates on top to make the pennies more appealing, and then send all coins from the 40's and 50's.

Sell what you show and show what you sell--otherwise you are a scam seller whether you mean to be or not. I know it sounds harsh based on your example, but it's the only fair thing for buyers AND sellers. Sure a seller may have to work harder to do honest business, but if it were easy to make money then money would have no value.

mahgobbi, I respectflly disagree.

First, it's not being picky to demand that all sellers on ebay play by the same rules.

The business with a picture of 5000 wheats cents is the perfect example of a scam. One of those guys shows a picture of a ton of wheats, then uses the text of his ad to infer that there might be a 1909 S VDB or a 1914 D cent in there. Gee...maybe even a 1955 Doubled Die.

Some of those chowderheads will try to get you to believe that they are unsearched and have been found in a barn in Arkansas.

That is all BS, and a scam.

eBays' rule say that the exact coin or coins being sold are to be pictured.

It is the responsibility of the seller, to sort his coins before he sells them. he can take pictures of little piles if he wants to as long as each individual pile is what he is selling.

The seller can not, by the rules, infer a greater value by saying there might be a rare coin in there etc.

It doesn't take a genius to know that the guy is hyping cheap wheat cents to get as much as he can for them. AND... he is doing it outside the rules of ebay.

Laziness is not an excuse for a dealer. It's too bad if it seems like it's too much work.

One of the biggest scammers used to take coins graded in his garage. Take one picture and list it a thousand times. You never knew what the coin was really going to look like.

There is a reason for the rules as they try to protect the buyer. I am happy to put myself in the middle of that process by pointing out scams when I see them.

To infer that folks like me have too much time on our hands and should leave scammers alone is beyond belief. I don't have too much time on my hands. I am quite busy. I make the time to help the hobby that I love by educating people and by doing what I can to get scammers away from ebay. I am a member on several forums on ebay that are tasked to look for scams. I've gone after big scammers and little scammers alike. A scam is a scam. I don't look away and say...AWW, he's just a little crooked. Crooked is crooked....

We don't want to "just turn people in" (In fact as I've said, they get fair warning before I do anything "official") we want to get rid of the rip off artists and your guy selling off his wheat cents has been doing it this way for years. If he didnt find a profitable scam, he would have run out of wheat cents a long time ago.

I call em' like I see 'em and a scammer is a scammer is a scammer.

On the OTHER other hand, how hard is it to take a picture of the 5000 wheat cents you are listing in that particular listing and box them up at the same time as your listing number is assigned?

I think most people with common sense wouldn't waste time reporting that as an infraction, especially if you are only promising 'wheat cents' and delivering wheat cents. But if you add the word 'unsearched,' or refer to specific years as if it's possible to find a 1909-S VDB then I have a problem with that.

Where does it say in EBAYs rules that you cannot use a stock photo? There are thousands of coin auction every single day in which the photos are stock photos-same say so explicitly in their text and some do not.

As a buyer, I have no problem with someone posting a picture of a big pile of wheats as a stock photo and then telling me I will 1/2 pound from that mix. As long as I know what I am getting. It doesn't affect me at all if someone says unsearched or "may/could" contain 09s VDB, because I assume neither is true. The word "unsearched" can mean many things. Every lot of coins I receive is essentially unsearched for dies, errors, things that maybe only I know about in that denomionation. But it is also searched by someone, somewhere in the past, particularly for keys/semi-keys. And the words "may/could" tell me that there is a degree of uncertainty. I also "may" not get an 09S VDB. If they use the word "will" or "does" contain 09S VDB, that changes the meaning to more certainty.

As a seller, I use stock photos, because frankly, my computer is too slow for me to upload pictures. I do not promise specific dates, jsut list the dates that are in the pile and the buyer is only guaranteed to get the number of coins requested. I am still running a 56K modem on my computer and it takes one hour (or more) to upload each picture for an auction. I can't afford to buy a new computer yet, and even so, there is no faster internet service out where I am, unless I get a costly satellite dish. If I had a rapid internet, I'd have no trouble with getting pictures uploaded of every item I sell.

Am I a scammer? NO. Most people that buy coins from me get MORE than they requested! If they order 10 coins, I give them 11 or 12.

I wish the folks here who are reporting sellers for ebay violations would focus their efforts on egregious scammers, people who purposely mislead, have things that are blatantly wrong, etc.