Watch Out For This Seller

mycrob - I agree with everything you've posted and I also got the opinion from this thread that people were being reported for minor rules which I didn't even know existed (and I'm a full-time eBayer for many, many years). I've since been in contact with Bill via email and that's really not what's going on. They are only reporting the egregious scammers, etc.

Base on what halfa pulled from the ebay web site, it does not explicitly say "no stock photos". If they did say that it would kill thousands of auctions immediately.

"Include a clear picture of the actual coin or paper money item that is being offered for sale."

This quote clearly provides wiggle room. It does not say "Include a clear picture of the exact item for sale", but the "actual". To me "actual coin" can mean a picture of a coin that is a representation of the item you would receive. "Actual can be interpreted that way. If they want us to NOT use stock photos, it should explicitly say that, and until they do, I will continue to use stock phots in at least some of my auctions. Or if they mena "exact" coin, they should say that instead of "actual".

Based on the quote, you folks should be reporting every auction in which the photos are blurry, very far away from the item, etc, because that does clearly violate the ebay policy.

mycrob, I didnt report you or anyone else like you. I have reported, as I said when five sellers use the identical picture of the SAME coin.

Also, I have yet to see a dictionary where actual says anything about a representation of an object.

My dictionary says actual adj. : existing in fact.

A representation is not factual. the intent is for sellers to show the Actual coin or paper money being sold, not a representation. No one could read actual as "a representation"

If you drive an actual Chevrolet, are you driving a Chevrolet or a representation of one.

Not to be rude, but that logic, like my bad right leg, (perthes disease ) is a little lame.

So that logic goes out the window pretty quick.

quote:

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Take a look on ebay coins under "collections, lots" and look at newest entries. There are hundreds if not thousands of listings with stock photos. You could bring a substantial % of the coin environment to its knees if you wish to report all of them for using stock photos.

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If I had the time, I would report every single one of those sellers. Those lots are a total rip-off and they waste my valuable time because I have to wade through them to get to the listings where the actual item for sale is pictured. You could make a substantial % of the coin environment have to have honest sales if you applied the rules evenly to all sellers.

Ok, first things first, I am not taking any sides in this discussion. I think this is a very healthy debate right now and is remaining quite civil, but know that any personal attacks will not be tolerated.

Having said that, Mycrob, I'm going to have to agree with Bill on this one. Actual means "exact" in my opinion, and I fail to see the wiggle room here. Tell me the difference between these two statements:

1. This picture is the exact coin you will be receiving.
2. This picture is the actual coin you will be receiving.

Regardless of that, I think taking a photo of a pile of coins is acceptable, as long as that pile disappears eventually. Problem is, they don't. Again, this is just my opinion.

As for ebay's supposed intent to eliminate the use of stock photos, this is news to me. I am VERY new to selling coins; however, I've been an ebay powerseller since the 1990s, so I'm not new to selling in general. Not only does ebay permit the use of stock photos in most categories, but they even encourage it by offering sellers the option to use eBay-generated stock photos.

I now see that they treat coins a bit differently than other categories, but I still believe the spirit of their rules is to weed out the scammers and not kill the business of the honest sellers.

I have 5000 coins I want to sell in a dutch auction style for let's say $1 each and I sell 100 per week. Clearly, I cannot take 5000 pictures, one of each coin. That is absolutely absurd. So I take a picture of the pile and the buyer is bidding on one Indian cent from the pile and that is it. All the possible dates that are in the pile are listed and this is honest, but there are no guarantees made with regard to dates. In my case, when the pile is gone, it is gone, as I'm a private collector with limited stock.

I simply cannot see how this is being fraudulent or deceptive. The buyer fully knows that he or she is bidding on one coin from the pile and they know not to have unreasonable expectations.

Exact vs actual definitions

Exact:
Characterized by strict adherence to standards or rules

Actual:
Based on fact

"Based on fact" is not itself fact. It is "based on fact". If you base something on "fact", it is not the same thing as "exact" fact. There is a very small amount of wiggle room when the word "actual" is used. "Exact" has a much stronger meaning than "actual". If ebay wanted to not allow the wiggle room, they would have used the word "Exact", not "actual". Exact has a much clearer meaning. Why didn't ebay use "Exact"? Maybe because it would lead to thousands and thousands of lost customers and thus loss of desperately-needed revenue.

To illustrate the minor differences between the words "exact" and "actual":
The bill for your car repair is exactly $100.
The bill for your car repair is actually around $100.

You can use the word "around" in the same sentence with actual and its derivative. But using "around in the same sentence as "exact" is incorrect. Of the two sentences, which one is stronger and clearer? The first one- you know what the price will be. In the second case, you know the price could be $100, but it might be 90 or 110 (or worse).

The other problem is that "actual" has multiple definitions in the dictionary, and so does "exact". So which definition is ebay referring to? I selected specific definitions among the many. This is one of the beauties of the English language. There are many shades of meaning to specific words and our own experiences and interpretations of those meanings come into play.

If I show a picture of a Buffalo nickel and the rest of the auction says wheat cents, I am misrepresenting or making a mistake. But if I show a picture of a pile of wheat cents and the auction is all about wheat cents, I am not deceiving or misrepresenting anything. I cannot take pictures of every coin in the pile of 5000.

I am glad to hear that at least some of you give a seller a fair warning before pulling the trigger on their auction. I hope that all of you would do this. And again, I would hope that you would spend your energies on very clear violations of ebay's policies. ebay does not state anywhere "No stock photos". If they want to go that direction, then they should do state this in their policy.

I personally love dutch auctions and buy coins from them all the time. Most dutch auctions use stock photos and I do not think their are deceiving or misrepresenting anything.

No personal attacks are implied or directed. I like healthy debate. We can agree to disagree on the stock photo issue. But I say again: ebay does not state "No stock photos". They would lose way too much business if they went with that policy.