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The Elimination Of High-Denomination Bills

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Pillar of the Community
United States
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 Posted 03/24/2016  12:32 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add angel2004 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
as per your last sentence. Sometimes that is what is surmised what will be the end of cash for the most part. Even children's lunch programs in many schools use a card or pre paid lunches. I recall a school using a thumbscanner in an article I read in the beginning of the school yr.
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jbuck's Avatar
United States
189340 Posts
 Posted 03/24/2016  2:31 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Even children's lunch programs in many schools use a card or pre paid lunches.
Yes, my son's school uses a PIN. We prepay; if he is close to zero or goes over we get an e-mail to up the balance.
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PacoMartin's Avatar
United States
411 Posts
 Posted 03/25/2016  07:35 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add PacoMartin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The lowest amount of cash in circulation any nation has ever managed to achieve was 1% of Gross Domestic Product (GDP) which Iceland had for nearly two decades.

I calculated one way Sweden could achieve 1% GDP using it's current six denominations of banknotes. Numbers are notes per capita. You would have to drop from current 28 notes per capita to 23 notes per capita (in the amounts below).

The dominant denomination by number of notes would be the 200kr = $24.11 banknote, but by value the 200 and 500 crown notes would be almost same (8*200=1600 crowns per person, and 3*500=1500 crowns per person).
			 number per capita		
Sweden	:	US$	:Today	--->	1% GDP
20 kr	:	$2.41	:8.8	--->	5.0 20*5=100
50 kr	:	$6.03	:2.2	--->	2.0 50*2=100
100 kr	:	$12.06	:6.9	--->	5.0 100*5=500
200 kr	:	$24.11	:0.8	--->	8.0 200*8=1600
500 kr	:	$60.28	:9.0	--->	3.0 500*3=1500
1000 kr	:	$120.56	:0.4	--->	0.2 1000*.2=200
TOTAL			 28.1	--->	23.2  4000 crowns

I don't think even Swedes will be happy if the cash supply goes lower than 1% of GDP.

The 2015 USA GDP is $17,803 billion, so 1% would be $178 billion. There are $171 billion in $20 circulating, so it just under 1%.
Edited by PacoMartin
03/25/2016 11:22 am
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PacoMartin's Avatar
United States
411 Posts
 Posted 05/05/2016  06:47 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add PacoMartin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/05/b...ls.html?_r=0

In a move aimed at hampering cash transactions by terrorists, drug dealers and money launderers, the European Central Bank on Wednesday announced an end to the 500-euro bank note, worth roughly $575.

The decision simply means that, beginning at the end of 2018, central banks in the 19 countries of the eurozone will no longer replace €500 bills that are returned for sorting or other reasons.

Here is the total number of Canadian $1000 banknotes that remain in circulation after the Canadian government pledged to stop producing them in the year 2000. The notes remain legal tender even today, but are very difficult to spend outside of criminal circuits. The government destroys any notes they can get their hands on even if they are in pristine condition.
2000 2,830,000
2001 2,310,000
2002 2,000,000
2003 1,790,000
2004 1,610,000
2005 1,470,000
2006 1,360,000
2007 1,270,000
2008 1,190,000
2009 1,130,000
2010 1,077,080
2011 946,043
2012 897,543
2013 858,202
2014 824,646

The number of €500 notes in circulation will probably never exceed the number in Dec 2015.
Dec 2015: 613,559,542
Mar 2016: 594,417,006


Production €500 has been low since 2010 anyway.
2014 85,000,000
2011 56,200,000
Edited by PacoMartin
05/05/2016 06:54 am
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redlock's Avatar
Germany
992 Posts
 Posted 05/06/2016  04:46 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add redlock to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
No one I know believes for a single minutes that the ''official reasons'' for the end of the €500 note are the real reasons.

Draghi and his cohorts just want to make it more difficult for everyone to store value (in cash). He and his allies need to make it more easy to be able to enforce negative interest rates.

Besides, the €500 note was never very popular in the countries that had weak currencies in the pre-Euro era (we know who you are). The €500 was pushed by the German Bundesbank, supported by Austrian and Dutch central banks -- banks/countries that had high denomination value banknotes in the pre-Euro era.

Lately, the Bundesbank has lost lots of influence in the ECB council. So, despite being against the move they went ahead anyway.
Edited by redlock
05/06/2016 04:48 am
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PacoMartin's Avatar
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411 Posts
 Posted 05/06/2016  10:27 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add PacoMartin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Besides, the €500 note was never very popular in the countries that had weak currencies in the pre-Euro era (we know who you are). The €500 was pushed by the German Bundesbank, supported by Austrian and Dutch central banks -- banks/countries that had high denomination value banknotes in the pre-Euro era.


Only three counties had a banknote worth ~ €500

511.29 € Deutsche mark
453.78 € Dutch guilder
363.36 € Austrian schilling
247.89 € Belgian franc
168.19 € Finnish markka
126.97 € Irish pound
123.95 € Luxembourgish franc
258.23 € Italian lire (500,000 lire introduced late)
76.22 € French franc
60.10 € Spanish peseta
49.88 € Portuguese escudo
29.35 € Greek drachma


Quote:
No one I know believes for a single minutes that the ''official reasons'' for the end of the €500 note are the real reasons.


That is sort of an IQ test. If you believe the official reasons then you deserve to be called stupid. If they were concerned about criminal activity, then they would have never created the €500 in the first place. The first place they would migrate to is where the drug entrance into EU is the strongest, which is precisely the places that didn't have high denomination banknotes.

The EU has a lot of cash compared to the Anglo countries. I think that in terms of GDP% that the EU will still be above USA in a decade. The €500s won't vanish quickly and the bank will print more €200 banknotes (at least initially).
On the other hand the USA is now way above it's historical 5% of GDP.


Cash/ GDP for five year period
.2010	.2011	.2012	.2013	.2014
3.52%	3.57%	3.63%	3.58%	3.62% United Kingdom
3.72%	3.67%	3.76%	3.77%	3.80% Canada
4.14%	4.06%	4.15%	4.29%	4.41% Australia

6.57%	6.93%	7.24%	7.45%	7.74% USA
7.91%	8.23%	8.12%	8.37%	8.82% Singapore
9.05%	9.32%	9.53%	9.87%	10.31% Eurozone
13.28%	13.96%	14.82%	15.91%	15.67% Hong Kong
17.99%	18.78%	19.19%	19.74%	20.04% Japan
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amrys's Avatar
United States
95 Posts
 Posted 05/08/2016  12:46 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add amrys to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I've heard that some European collectors will now start to hoard some 500 Euro note in unc.
I don't know if this will make sense, because there were many notes more printed compared with the higher denoms ($500, $1,000, $5,000 and $10,000) in the USA.
But on the other hand I see no disadvantage to grab some and put them aside for later years...
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Libertad's Avatar
Canada
3692 Posts
 Posted 05/08/2016  6:06 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Libertad to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'm reading this article trying to argue that a suitcase full of money would weigh 27 pounds and allowing only $50 bills to circulate would increase the weight and amount of suitcase used. But this is silly, if they simply introduced a bill that weighed 2 or 3 times the amount. They really haven't thought it through but they act as if they did. It's not like 27 pounds is even a lot of weight to someone who knows how to move cargo. The author (Ethan Wolff-Mann) watches too many Hollywood brainwashers.

The solution to this non-existent problem is to make a metal-detectable bill that weighs multiple times what a current $100 weighs. Meanwhile this idea would inconvenience millions of legitimate business persons in the hopes to catch a few crooks.
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PacoMartin's Avatar
United States
411 Posts
 Posted 05/27/2016  3:05 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add PacoMartin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
At the end of 2015 the government reported these quantities (in numbers of bills) for the circulation statistics for the four high denomination banknotes
283,998 $500
165,339 $1000
353 $5000
345 $10000
At least 10 of the $500 bills and 12 of the $1000 bills were turned in during the previous three months. It seems that some collectors decide they can't get anything for them trying to sell them, so they just turn them in for face value, and the BEP destroys them. Now obviously these quantities are insignificant as the circulation of the current denominations are in billions of notes.

11 billion $1
1 billion $2
2.6 billion $5
1.8 billion $10
8.2 billion $20
1.5 billion $50
10.6 billion $100

If you believe that the $2 bills in your drawer will one day be valuable, then try counting to a billion.

The weight of the bills in a briefcase argument is actually pretty weak. It is true that if you are smuggling money in a body cavity it would be nice to have a 500 euro banknote instead of ten 50 euro banknotes, but that argument is very secondary to money policy. It's true that criminals prefer big denomination bills, but they would adapt

Sweden has eliminated all but a token number of 1000SEK banknotes ~ US$120. They have removed over 90% of them from circulation. Sweden has completely eliminated the 10,000SEK banknote in 1991. Unlike the high denomination bills in the USA if you still have one, it is not legal tender anymore. In the USA you can turn in your $1000 banknote and get $1000 in smaller denominations.

The Riksbank has greatly reduced the number of 500SEK banknotes in the past several years. But more importantly they are not replacing the value with smaller denominations. THAT MAKES A DIFFERENCE! The ability of people to store value in currency is rapidly diminishing. What is not so surprising is that Sweden's Riksbank has the largest negative interest rates in the world. Swedish commercial banks have almost no cash on hand compared to the rest of the world. There is no federal regulation (as in the USA) requiring banks to keep a certain amount in their vaults.
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SteveInTampa's Avatar
United States
4637 Posts
 Posted 05/28/2016  06:51 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SteveInTampa to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
At least 10 of the $500 bills and 12 of the $1000 bills were turned in during the previous three months. It seems that some collectors decide they can't get anything for them trying to sell them, so they just turn them in for face value, and the BEP destroys them.


I don't necessarily agree with this. I believe if they are being turned in, it is by people that are unaware of the potential value.....non collectors. Go out and try and buy any $500 or $1,000 note from a collector or dealer at face value. I haven't seen it happen since I've been collecting.
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PacoMartin's Avatar
United States
411 Posts
 Posted 06/04/2016  8:53 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add PacoMartin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I would think if they were valuable, the bank employees would take them. To the best of my knowledge the commercial bank employees are not obligated to turn them into the BEP. I think once the BEP gets them, employees have to see them destroyed, and cannot purchase the note.
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redlock's Avatar
Germany
992 Posts
 Posted 06/05/2016  04:05 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add redlock to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Bolivia will introduce a new banknote series in 2018. According to a press release by the BCB it will include a sixth (and thus new) denomination. A 500 Bolivianos note. Considering that 500 Bolivianos are a bit over USD 70, that's a noteworthy thing.
20 Million 500 will initially be produced.
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PacoMartin's Avatar
United States
411 Posts
 Posted 06/10/2016  12:54 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add PacoMartin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
If there are 20 million of these notes for a country of 11 million people, there is no telling how long it will take them to introduce the bills. Some nations faced with the problem of a banknote that has relatively low production as banknotes go, but too high for their circulation needs, simply purchase a ten year supply all at once. Particularly because most nations buy banknotes from foreign sources.

The UK introduced the £50 banknotes on March 20, 1981, and by the time they retired the original edition on Apr 20, 1994 circulation of the second edition was still only 62-65 million (roughly the same as the country's population).

On October 24, 2013, the Bank of Iceland announced that the new 10,000 krónur banknote (~$81) were printed by De La Rue Plc. in the UK. Four million banknotes were printed at a purchase price of 29 kr. each. Obviously 4 million * 10,000 krónur = 40 billion krónur. At the end of 2012, the country was circulating 42.5 billion krónur in banknotes of all denominations. Iceland still aren't circulating much above 2 million of the notes, but they are replacing the 5,000 krónur banknotes.

So Bolivia may do something similar.

Edited by PacoMartin
06/10/2016 01:00 am
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redlock's Avatar
Germany
992 Posts
 Posted 06/10/2016  05:06 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add redlock to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Here are the numbers of banknotes that the BCB has orderd for the 2018 series:
10 BOB, 191 Mio.
20 BOB, 138 Mio.
50 BOB, 66 Mio.
100 BOB, 220 Mio.
200 BOB, 56 Mio.
500 BOB, 20 Mio.

In the press release regarding the new series the BCB also gives an explanation for the new 500 BOB note (I don't speak Spanish so I won't explain it here, and besides google translations are not the most reliable).
The BCB link:
https://www.bcb.gob.bo/webdocs/10_n...31%20BCB.pdf

And speaking of ''500''
The Polish National Bank will introduce a new denomination in their current banknote series: A 500 zloty banknote (approx. USD 130)
The NBP link to the press release which also gives an explanation why the new denom is needed in Poland
http://www.nbp.pl/home.aspx?f=/aktu.../500-zl.html
Edited by redlock
06/10/2016 05:11 am
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PacoMartin's Avatar
United States
411 Posts
 Posted 06/11/2016  8:42 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add PacoMartin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
So the 500 zloty is worth 114 Euros in exchange and has the purchasing power of 200 Euros in Poland. So with the ECB not producing the 500 Euro in the next series (only the 100 and 200 Euro note), Poland is keeping more in pace with the rest of the continent. The 200 zloty note ~ 46EUR.

There are critics of constantly printing new denominations. In Mexico, when the 500 peso banknote was introduced in October 1994, it's value was initially higher than a Benjamin, but fell to US$100 within two months. The 1000 peso banknotes was introduced in November 2004, when it was worth US$88, but by then the 500 peso banknote was the primary banknote in the economy. The 500 peso banknote has now fallen in value to ~ US$27. but there are still twenty 500MXN banknotes to one 1000MXN banknote in circulation. The critics feel that the government is encouraging inflation by printing larger and larger notes. I suspect that is somewhat naive, as denominations of banknotes tend to follow inflation, not cause it.
Edited by PacoMartin
06/12/2016 5:06 pm
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