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Replies: 108 / Views: 18,258 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
624 Posts |
I don't think they would be worth as much as the 1000 dollar bills because they were so much more common but I do agree that they will be worth more than face as is most discontinued US currency.
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Valued Member
United States
411 Posts |
US High Value Denomination total production and remaining figures $500 3,943,708 of which 283,998 are still in circulation $1000 2,675,016 / 165,339 $5000 71,904 / 353 $10000 64,624 / 345
These are all from the 1928, 1934, and 1934A series, but they were produced through 1945. In 1969 the US government announced that they would never resume production, and would destroy the ones in their possession. But they remain legal tender forever.
Canada still has over 700,000 CAD$1000 banknotes in circulation, and they stopped printing them and began destroying the ones in government possession in 2000. They haven't really moved to collectibles, but still remain in the hands of criminals who use them to pay off one another.
But with over 600 million 500 Euro notes in circulation, they may not become collectibles for a hundred years.
Edited by PacoMartin 06/17/2016 01:16 am
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Pillar of the Community
Germany
992 Posts |
Quote: They haven't really moved to collectibles, but still remain in the hands of criminals who use them to pay off one another. Popular assertion by law enforcement and anti-cash activists. Have not seen any real proof that this is actually true.
Edited by redlock 06/17/2016 05:12 am
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Valued Member
United States
411 Posts |
Well you are never going to see any "real proof" to any of these claims. Cash is by it's very nature untraceable, so these arguments (going back over 40 years) about criminal use of high denomination notes are always based partly on analysis and partly on anecdotes.
The Canadian $1000 was probably close to 10% of the Canadian banknotes in circulation by value in 1999. They were discontinued in 2000 and initially the number of outstanding notes dropped quickly.
The percentage is about 1% today.
2000 2,830,000 7.7% 2001 2,310,000 6.0% 2002 2,000,000 4.9% 2003 1,790,000 4.2% 2004 1,610,000 3.6% 2005 1,470,000 3.2% 2006 1,360,000 2.8% 2007 1,270,000 2.5% 2008 1,190,000 2.2% 2009 1,130,000 2.0% 2010 1,077,080 1.9% 2011 946,043 1.6% 2012 897,543 1.4% 2013 858,202 1.3% 2014 824,646 1.2%
Edited by PacoMartin 06/23/2016 2:59 pm
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CCF Advertiser
United States
1533 Posts |
Think of how inconvenient it will be to go to a coin show with $5000 in 50's. This would suck. I hope it fails hard.
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Moderator
 United States
189340 Posts |
So carrying 100 $50 notes is more difficult than 50 $100 notes? Neither one of those wads are fitting in my wallet, they would have to go in a bank bag or inside jacket pocket. Not that I would ever be carrying that much cash. 
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Valued Member
United States
411 Posts |
Eliminating the $1000 BANKNOTE in Canada was not accompanied by the reduction in cash (which has doubled since the year 2000). 105% Increase in Value of Total banknotes issued from 200 to 2015 -71% CAD $1000 162% CAD $100 144% CAD $50 67% CAD $20 36% CAD $10 60% CAD $5
While the Canadian $1000 was never more than ~ 10% of the cash supply, the 500 Euro banknote was once as high as 36% of the Euro banknotes in circulation by value (although now is closer to 28%). I presume that the ECB has no intention of completely replacing them with smaller notes, but in keeping with Negative Interest Rate policy, they will reduce the cash supply.
The USA will never get rid of it's $100 banknote. The Bureau of Engraving and Printing had massive production problems with the new color Benjamin in their run from March-Sep 2010 (the series 2009). What is less widely known is that the series 2013 was abandoned after making only a few notes from Nov 2014-March 2015. They have returned to the series 2009A which is over 6.37 billion notes so far.
You will never see the Benjamins eliminated.
The first major call to eliminate the $100 banknote was in 1976, only seven years after the US government pledged to destroy all the $500, $1000, $5000 and $10000 that came into their possession. Even calls to limit circulation of Benjamins to a Trillion Dollars would be a radical change in policy. The number of circulating Benjamins passed a Trillion Dollars sometimes in late 2014.
Sweden is actively trying to eliminate cash, altogether. They eliminated their really big denomination (worth well over US$1000) in 1991. Now they only circulate a token number of banknotes worth over $60. The ~$60 banknote has been reduced by 27% in the last 15 months. It is unclear how far the government plans to go in eliminating this denomination. In a few years they may have only denominations ~$25 or less.
Edited by PacoMartin 06/23/2016 6:30 pm
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Valued Member
United States
354 Posts |
Nice info guys! I love watching your posts.
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Valued Member
United States
411 Posts |
Although this forum is for banknotes, the recent decision by Korea to eliminate all coins by 2020 can be seen as a backhanded way to reduce all cash payments. Think about if you are due to receive $27.94 cents change at a store. Would you take a twenty, a five, two ones and produce some kind of card or smartphone app to take your 94 cents in change, or would you simply put $27.94 on the card or smartphone app. The 50,000 Won banknote worth US$42.68 will probably remain useful for private transactions where you are not looking for small change. The 10,000 Won banknote will probably remain common, but the 1,000 Won banknote worth 85 cents and the 5,000 Won banknote will shrivel in popularity as people switch to electronic means for small purchases. One question is how much money does each currency distribute in coins (shown as US dollar equivalent). Japan and Switzerland as two of the most cash intensive countries on the planet also have the most valuable coins. South Korea has a highly developed economy, but circulates far fewer coins than most developed countries. Perhaps that is why they are the first country to eliminate coins.
USD equiv per capita Local Currency @ 31 Dec 2015
$369.08 Switzerland 366 francs
$306.48 Japan 36897 yen
$155.97 Singapore 221 dollars
$140.16 USA 140 dollars
$125.92 Hong Kong 976 dollars
$118.14 Canada 164 dollars
$114.53 Australia 157 dollars
$99.76 Britain (UK) 67 pounds
$83.54 Euro Zone 77 euros
$63.26 Sweden 534 crowns
$38.25 S. Korea 44835 won
$18.93 Mexico 326 pesos
$7.93 Turkey 23 lira
$7.75 Russia 565 rubles
$7.46 Brazil 29 real
$2.87 Saudi Arabia 11 riyal
$0.88 India 5 rupees
$0.39 South Africa 6 rand
Saudi Arabia has a banknote that is worth little more than a quarter. So they seem to prefer nothing but paper. South Korea is not planning to issue new small denomination paper currency to replace coins. They intend to go to strictly electronic means. IMHO the United States should stop making all coins except dimes and quarters. All other coins are a waste of money. They should close one of the mints. It is the general policy of the USA and Canada not to demonetize cash, so the other coins will circulate for a while until people start hoarding them. Do you think any other country will follow S Korea's lead in the next decade? Sweden seems far more interested in eliminating large denomination banknotes, and has actually begun replacing 85% of it's older coins about 8 weeks ago with newer coins that weigh about half as much.
Edited by PacoMartin 12/05/2016 11:59 pm
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Valued Member
Canada
458 Posts |
who knows but I don't like the idea that us or Canada would take all of them out of here.
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Valued Member
United States
411 Posts |
Another way to look at it is what percentage of the banknotes and coins by value is in coins.
USA is unlikely to abolish coins as it is ultra conservative with regard to cash. The fact that they still have the penny, still print the dollar bill, and are not even seriously considering polymer are strong indicators that they would never consider abolishing coins.
Canada has the highest percentage of any major currency of their cash in coins. They are also very unlikely to abolish coins.
0.17% Saudi Arabia 0.35% South Africa 1.31% India 1.92% Hong Kong 2.34% Euro Zone 2.62% Korea 2.64% Brazil 3.16% USA 3.16% Mexico 3.18% Singapore 4.26% Switzerland 4.55% Japan 4.94% Australia 6.30% Britain (UK) 7.20% Canada
Saudi Arabia has about 40 coins per capita circulating, but they are very small monetary value.
The decision to eliminate coins as having monetary value has a lot of technical problems. I am not sure if anyone will follow South Korea. But Hong Kong is my first guess.
Edited by PacoMartin 12/06/2016 07:43 am
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2589 Posts |
Eliminating coins from circulation in favor of paper money is a foolish idea from a seniorage and cost of production point of view. The lifespan of the most heavily used denominations of banknotes is a few years at most, while for coins it lasts decades. I believe most governments with non-hyperinflationary currencies would be better off if they switched their bills of around $5 USD equivalent and lower to coins like they do in switzerland and japan.
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Moderator
 United States
189340 Posts |
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Valued Member
United States
411 Posts |
Just to counter that argument, look at the circulation figures for South Korea. Coins and banknotes are shown 31 Dec 2015 on a per capita basis with exchange value in USD for each denomintion on that date. The Korean government is circulating 435 coins per capita and 94 banknotes.
25.4 KRW 50,000 $42.66
34.0 KRW 10,000 $8.53
5.2 KRW 5,000 $4.27
29.4 KRW 1,000 $0.85
94.0 banknotes per capita
45.2 KRW 500 $0.427
185.1 KRW 100 $0.085
40.5 KRW 50 $0.043
164.6 KRW 10 $0.009
435.5 coins per capita
Generally if you replace a banknote with a coin they last longer but you must produce more of them. People tend to hoard coins in drawers, but they don't hoard banknotes. So from the government's standpoint, they don't want to add to the coins by replacing the 1000 and 5000 Won banknotes. By demonetizing the coins in four years it forces everyone in the country to have some kind of phone app or a card that can upload value. Once this system is in place, the two smaller denomination banknotes will naturally decrease in importance and can be either eliminated or production can be greatly cut back. The elimination of the coins will probably be followed by the elimination of the 1000W banknote within a year or two. Quote: I believe most governments with non-hyperinflationary currencies would be better off if they switched their bills of around $5 USD equivalent and lower to coins like they do in switzerland and japan. I think this thinking made more sense 30 years ago. Now many governments would prefer to be out of the business of making coins altogether. South Korea also lives in desperate fear of a successful North Korean counterfeit operation that destroys their economy. Demonetizing coins would mean that everyone in the country has to be able to handle electronic transactions. If there is a counterfeit operation they can simply call in all their banknotes in a short period of time.
Edited by PacoMartin 12/06/2016 4:44 pm
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Moderator
 United States
189340 Posts |
Quote: People tend to hoard coins in drawers, but they don't hoard banknotes. Coins get hoarded when they have little purchase power. I doubt you will see one, two, and five dollar coins hoarded in the same amounts as the smallest denominations. This is just based on my own experience. I often get coin jars from family because they know I like to look through them. There are a lot of cents, a modest number of nickels and dimes, a very small number of quarters, and almost never anything larger. If a coin is worth something, it will circulate. Cents are worthless. Nickels and dimes are not far behind.
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Replies: 108 / Views: 18,258 |